Bobby Ryan for Anaheim's Hart? Some French dude questions Sleek's sanity
Well, I already mentioned this in the comments of this FanShot, but after submitting my Anaheim Ducks choices for Hart, Norris, etc. for James Mirtle's 30-team masterpiece, apparently some French-language blog has picked on two of my main choices (along with selections made for other teams):
À Anaheim, je vois mal comment Bobby Ryan peut surpasser Ryan Getzlaf pour le Hart. Niedermayer bien avant Pronger pour le Norris.Roughly translated through the power of the internet:
In Anaheim, I see badly how Bobby Ryan can surpass Ryan Getzlaf for Hart. Niedermayer long before Pronger for Norris.
So I guess it's time for me to do a bit of defending of my selections. I should start by saying that there's nothing wrong with selecting Getzlaf or Niedermayer for the respective awards -- there's certainly some very easy arguments to make for either All-Star (you probably don't have to go much past points totals). However, as easy as it is to compare season scoring totals, as a Ducks fan I am much more interested in outscoring opponents, and that is where I feel Bobby Ryan has really excelled this year, enough so that I'm willing to give him team MVP honors.

Image lifted from the artwork of Good Kyle.
There's a lot of number-crunching coming after the jump, if you're ready, with special thanks going to Vic Ferrari's 5-on-5 Head To Head Icetime site. For each game, Vic's site tracks which teammates and opponents a player spends his 5v5 icetime with. Let's take a look:
First off, let's take a look at Bobby Ryan's linemates over his 62 games-played this season. Sandwiched between two stints on the Getzlaf-Perry line, Ryan's been all over the map in terms of linemates -- notably I've color-coded his games played with Getzlaf/Perry (20), Ebbett/Selanne (17), Ebbett/Morrison (11), and Carter/Parros (5). Avg Pct. means between the two linemates, what percentage of Bobby Ryan's 5-on-5 minutes did the linemates average?
Not a ton of stability for the kid, which makes his scoring this season even a bit more remarkable. Using the breakdown in the table above, here's how Bobby Ryan's even-strength scoring rates (per 60 minutes) look with all four of his main sets of linemates. You'll note that in pretty much any linemate situation, Bobby Ryan's line was a significant outscorer at even strength -- especially it seems when playing with Ryan Carter and George Parros:
Just looking at the table, it's impressive to see -- no matter who Bobby Ryan gets lined up with, he's been delivering very solid outscoring results at even-strength. Even when teamed with the black hole of productivity named Brendan Morrison, B-Ry was able to put in twice as many GF as GA.
Now just to bring in another angle, let's take a look at perrenial top-liners Getzlaf and Perry's even-strength scoring rates -- segmented by whether or not Coach Carlyle was utilizing a Ryan-Getzlaf-Perry line or not.
What I really want to emphasize in this table is the mediocre outscoring rates that Getzlaf and Perry have put up without Bobby Ryan on their wing; sure, they are putting up nice points totals and generating offense just fine without the kid, but a lot of what they are doing is being offset by some porous defensive numbers. For sure, all three players' even-strength numbers improve in the games where they are played together, but unlike Getzlaf or Perry, Bobby Ryan is able to continue significantly outscoring his opposition without the other two guys.
Add to that the fact that Bobby Ryan has a slightly better power play scoring rate than Getzlaf or Perry (Ryan: 7.16 PP Pts/60, Getzlaf: 6.90 PP Pts/60, Perry: 5.32 PP Pts/60), plus he isn't nearly so prone to boneheaded offensive zone penalties, and I think there's enough ammunition to at the very least say that the Ducks' MVP isn't a Getzlaf slam dunk -- I think there's a strong case to be made for the new kid.
* * *
And finally, here's a quick rebuttal on their notion that Scott Niedermayer is the "bien avant" Norris winner on the Ducks. For this, I just went a lot simpler, and just compared GF vs. GA when Pronger or Niedermayer was on the ice.
Both former Norris defensemen have played all 80 games this season, and in terms of total ice time are within 3 minutes-played of each other, and in terms of points totals, Niedermayer does have a sizeable edge. However, Pronger's got the edge in terms of outscoring opposition during his minutes, which really made the decision for me.
* * *
In closing, I'll again reiterate that there's nothing wrong with picking Getzlaf or Niedermayer for these made-up awards -- both have been extremely valuable in key scorer's minutes throughout the season, and a quick glance at the team's leading scorers will confirm that. However, this exercise was about team bloggers making their choice, and for me the notion of outscoring is much more important than the notion of scoring; I think my choices reflect that.
Feel free to shoot my theories down, tell me what I'm missing, or just tell me who would get your Anaheim Hart or Norris vote -- the comments section is open for criticism, I guess in whatever language you want.
Go Ducks.
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Heh, if it helps, Selanne would be my Masterton nominee each and every year until he retires. Even though we’ve seen his impressive productivity for several years now, it’s still one hell of a comeback.
Parros will have to settle for “Best Moustache”.
http://www.battleofcali.com/
I’d also give Parros a special award — “Most improved player since the ’07 Cup Finals”.
Somehow in the last two years, Parros has gone from a guy who had to be scratched in playoff games to a semi-genuine player. I’ve suspected there’s some version of Brain Steroids involved, but hey — I don’t mind a Parros who isn’t an outright liability.
http://www.battleofcali.com/
I guess one other thing I should mention
I went on record a lot last year talking about how Scott Niedermayer shouldn’t get any Hart consideration — yes, the team turned around defensively when he returned to the team, but you can’t be giving MVP trophies to people who voluntarily take 34 games off to start the season.
I feel OK about Bobby Ryan taking 18 games off this year, though, because (a) there was nothing voluntary about it — he was a salary cap casualty and had there been better handling of that, he would have started the year in Anaheim, and (b) the thrust of Anaheim’s successful portion of the season has come during the last couple of weeks.
That said, there is a completely valid argument that Getzlaf should win Anaheim MVP for leading the team for the entire year. I don’t fully subscribe to it (or at least I’m willing to make considerations for Bobby Ryan’s late start), but it is probably one main reason why critics think I’m an idiot for my choice.
http://www.battleofcali.com/
Interestingly enough, I think the fact that Bobby Ryan has not been here for the entire season and has still managed to make such an impact, is even more reason that he’s deserving of the Hart.
GO DUCKS!! DUCKSandPUCKS.com
u hit it on the nail homeslice
El Spade-o
by SPADE-IN-VICTORHELL on Apr 8, 2009 3:16 PM PDT up reply actions
Unrelated to the topic of fake trophies
…but still noteworthy nonetheless.
Happy 1,000th NHL game to Brad May. Congrats, Mayday.
http://www.battleofcali.com/
That Obama-ization of Bobby Ryan makes it look like he pulls the old Mccaulley Caulkin lip stick routine.
The comments section is open for criticism, I guess in whatever language you want.
Dieses ist alle Scheiße. Sami Pahlsson sollte das Hart gewinnen, und Bret Hedican sollte das Norris gehaben. Scheißkopf.
Lighthouse Hockey: Side effects may include Weight gain and frequent game loss.
Eek-Slay Oo-yay Idiot-ay! :)
Hedican’s only award this year is for Best Figure-Skating Wife.
http://www.battleofcali.com/
You say that as if BFSW is not a major award.
Lighthouse Hockey: Side effects may include Weight gain and frequent game loss.
sleek
you dont have to defend your bobby ryan pick…to non-duck fans…its ludicrus…
El Spade-o
by SPADE-IN-VICTORHELL on Apr 8, 2009 3:15 PM PDT reply actions
I was going to run the numbers someday to show that B-Ry has been outscoring in all sorts of ridiculous lineups; it’s just this French dude inspired me to get on my horse and get it done.
Le Bobby is Le Man!
http://www.battleofcali.com/
Plus, I’m not sure non-Ducks fans are aware of how crazy B-Ry’s linemate-schedule has been — they probably assume that he’s been on Getzlaf/Perry’s wing the entire time. I know on Mirtle’s post I did get this comment:
Bobby Ryan has been great (how funny does Lowe’s comment about him being a questionable prospect look now?) but Getzlaf is driving the bus. I’m not convinced Bobby Ryan would be the force he has been lately on another line.
… which does make sense if you’ve only followed B-Ry for the past two weeks or so. I did feel a bit compelled to show, though, that he has done exactly that — been a force on several other lines, in fact.
http://www.battleofcali.com/
I saw that comment. Thought it was funny.
There were moments this season when I thought he was going to make his new years resolution of getting Parros to 15 goals come true. Knew it was only a matter of time that he’d be up on the 1st or 2nd line.
GO DUCKS!! DUCKSandPUCKS.com
I saw that comment. Thought it was funny.
Well, at least it was in English, so I could respond to it.
There were moments this season when I thought he was going to make his new years resolution of getting Parros to 15 goals come true.
15 goals — is that a lifetime total he’s aiming for? :)
http://www.battleofcali.com/
Also unrelated to fake trophies
But holy crap! They’re going to retire Maggie the Monkey after this year’s playoffs?!
Maybe Eklund put in a sizeable offer sheet to improve on his trade rumor accuracy.
http://www.battleofcali.com/
Maggie boldly – and correctly – predicted the Mighty Ducks of Anaheim would make it to the 2003 Stanley Cup Final® by beating favoured Detroit, Dallas and Minnesota.
that was my favorite part of that story
GO DUCKS!! DUCKSandPUCKS.com
Also, we had a lot of fun with Maggie’s picks in the 2007 postseason, as she picked against CA-based teams (ANA and SJS) every single opportunity she had.
She actually had a fabulous record in other series that spring, but was 1-5 when the BoC was involved. Good times.
http://www.battleofcali.com/
I had to laugh at how the Wild’s beat writer broke the Maggie retirement news:
By the way, meant to mention this the other day, but terrible news out of Toronto, but TSN’s Maggie the Monkey is retiring after this year’s postseason picks. If you remember, she’s the reason the Wild lost to Anaheim in the 2003 Western Finals. The Ducks were her Cinderella pick.
Yes, Mr. Russo. It was entirely Maggie’s fault — absolutely nothing to do with a guy named Giguere. :)
http://www.battleofcali.com/
sleek
im I reading this right…we need to only win one of the next 2 games to guarantee a playoff spot? or a nashville lost? that true?
El Spade-o
by SPADE-IN-VICTORHELL on Apr 9, 2009 6:30 AM PDT reply actions
If Nashville loses in regulation tonight, they cannot catch us. But I don’t think we can lock up a spot today, technically, because the Wild will be 3 points back with 2 games to play — we’d need one point in our last two games (or have Minny drop a point) to actually lock up a spot — which can’t happen today.
So basically, a NSH loss “virtually” guarantees a playoff spot. But it can’t be clinched until tomorrow. But yes — if the Ducks win a game, then only STL could pass us, which means we’d be guaranteed a top-eight spot.
http://www.battleofcali.com/
side note puckdaddy is gonna be trumpeting his Clairvoyance im betting
El Spade-o
by SPADE-IN-VICTORHELL on Apr 9, 2009 8:08 AM PDT up reply actions
yea…if we lose both and st louis wins one…then the boc matchup..hehe
i cant belive it…go wings?
El Spade-o
by SPADE-IN-VICTORHELL on Apr 9, 2009 8:02 AM PDT reply actions
yea almost spit out my coffee saying that….were probally gonna play those assholes in the first round…..heres a pre fuck you hossa and fuck you holmstrom
El Spade-o
by SPADE-IN-VICTORHELL on Apr 9, 2009 8:49 AM PDT up reply actions
matter of fact any swede from the wings (zetterberg)…fuck u…u cocksuckers!!!
El Spade-o
by SPADE-IN-VICTORHELL on Apr 9, 2009 9:06 AM PDT up reply actions
You never know — I’m still holding out that the Blues pass us and set up the BoC.
http://www.battleofcali.com/
that would require us losing…i would hate to go in with no momentum….then again….playing the sharks..would be so much fun…even if we lost….damn…tough descion…
still rather though look menacing….destroy the stars and yotes….be better for morale and scare factor…think im leaning that way
El Spade-o
by SPADE-IN-VICTORHELL on Apr 9, 2009 9:25 AM PDT up reply actions
just thought….im the sharks or wings….im thinking…“i can play the predators, blues or ducks”…..hmmmm….“who do i want?” hehehe…wow how funny is that
El Spade-o
by SPADE-IN-VICTORHELL on Apr 9, 2009 9:27 AM PDT up reply actions
It doesn’t have to be two losses — just basically if the Blues pick up one more point than the Ducks, then we’re passed. So we could have a win and a shootout loss vs. two wins or something.
http://www.battleofcali.com/
yea that can work…like that better
El Spade-o
by SPADE-IN-VICTORHELL on Apr 9, 2009 9:41 AM PDT up reply actions
but heres somthing…if we play the sharks….were stuck with ruebin for a series?…..i take it you didnt think that all through there now did you earl hahahaha
El Spade-o
by SPADE-IN-VICTORHELL on Apr 9, 2009 9:42 AM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, but when the alternative is Detroit?
That’s like having an army of Rubins. Seriously, I’d expect to be attacked in the comments of any post in that series — that’s a vicious bunch of visitors for sure.
http://www.battleofcali.com/
great point
Plus think about it, Ruben mentioned Perry is a douche bad every different way he could think of, and never really got the response he wanted. It took almost 250 posts, but I would say he is now of the opinion that trying to get us to agree with his line of thinking is an exercise in futility.
So maybe we don’t even see him, but there is NO chance the wings faithful fail to make an appearance.
Deal isn’t done yet boys, i’d much rather the Ducks win out, and play detroit. I wouldn’t want to chance a huge string of ‘maybes’ to get us in a position just to play the sharks in the first round, and wind up in 9th spot somehow.
Don't bRuin your life. Make love with a Trojan
Sure, but if Nashville loses in regulation today, there’s not a huge amount of maybes left.
The Ducks would have to lose both their last two games in regulation AND the Wild would have to win both of their last two games AND the Blues would have to get at least a point out of their final two to drop the Ducks to ninth.
I hear what you’re saying, but it’s quite possible that tomorrow’s game becomes anything but important, and the Ducks’ ever-tenuous hold on a top-eight spot might not be tenuous any more.
http://www.battleofcali.com/
Wow, how's this for a double helping of good news?
From the OC Register Ducks blog:
Defenseman Francois Beauchemin remains on track to possibly be in the lineup Friday night, when the Ducks can clinch a Stanley Cup playoff berth against the Dallas Stars at Honda Center.
Defenseman Bret Hedican does not.
Good news followed by great news!
http://www.battleofcali.com/
sleek it must be your birthday today….why didnt u tell us?
El Spade-o
by SPADE-IN-VICTORHELL on Apr 9, 2009 2:24 PM PDT up reply actions
Makes it sound like we’re going to be playing the Dallas Stars in the first round.
Nobody cares about your opinion.
Actually, I’m pretty glad that’s not how we’re starting this year. They might be a rotten team this year, but it’s always tough to tell just from when they play against the Ducks.
http://www.battleofcali.com/
ducks seem allergic to that green in there sweater or somthing….grrr hate dallas
El Spade-o
by SPADE-IN-VICTORHELL on Apr 9, 2009 4:05 PM PDT up reply actions

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