I Hate Myself for Even Bringing It Up
by RudyKelly on Jun 23, 2009 9:22 AM PDT
43 comments
Dean Lombardi said on Sunday at the GM's breakfast (fan-fucking-tastic coverage of the event, Rich) that he would still like to get a veteran defenseman to help out on the penalty kill. As it stands now, the Kings have 4 guys that can play the penalty kill (Matt Greene, Sean O'Donnell, Jack Johnson and Drew Doughty) but I think they still want one other guy that can take some pressure off Johnson and Doughty, much like Gauthier did last year. The Kings need someone primarily for special teams, with only a few minutes a night at even-strength. They also need someone that can help lead our young defensemen and teach them how to be a professional in the NHL. Maybe it could be someone that's famed for his workout ethic, that wouldn't mind playing only few minutes a night, and that wouldn't mind playing in LA. Can you think of anyone like that?
No, I can't think of anyone either.
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dont bother
I respect the hell out of Chelios, but really, LA’s defense isn’t bad enough to need Chelios. The last couple years have been pretty sad. Can’t skate to save his life, makes a million stupid turnovers, he’s really more harm than help. Maybe a team like Atlanta could use him, but that’s about it
http://sacrificethebody.blogspot.com/
Sacrifice the Body - Examining the NHL through statistical analysis, reasoned thought, and blind conjecture.
by IAmJoe on Jun 23, 2009 10:21 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Sucks they got rid of Schneider then… it’d be awesome to have a 40+ pair out there.
Nobody cares about your opinion.
by brokenyard on Jun 23, 2009 11:23 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow — from a regular opponent’s perspective, that would be awesome. Do it, Dean.
http://www.battleofcali.com/
by Earl Sleek on Jun 23, 2009 10:27 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Hmm
On the one hand, he’s a guy you wouldn’t think twice about scratching half the time, so in that sense he’s a good choice for an eighth defenseman. On the other hand, aren’t there better options out there? SOD is only costing us $1.25MM, and that’s a huge upgrade over Chelios circa 2009.
Doughty/Johnson
Quincey/Greene
SOD/Hickey-Voynov
Drewiske/??
And, really, if Gauthier is such a great teammate, as DL indicated in his coffee talk or whatever they called it, wouldn’t he be a better choice, if we can get him to sign for $1.5 or something? I would still want to look at all the UFA possibilities before I fully commit to saying I want Denis Gauthier back, but if we’re going to think about Chelios…
by Quisp on Jun 23, 2009 10:48 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Hey!
Awesome to see you over here Quisp! Your insights and analysis of the Kings are something I really dig reading over at Hammond’s blog. I hope you didn’t leave a trail behind that some of those jerk-offs could use to follow you over here though. I’m looking forward to reading more of your Kings’ Thoughts here at BoC in the time to come!
2009 LA Kings Hockey: thanks to Joe Sakic's snowblower, WE'RE BETTER THAN THE AV'S!!!!
by DodgerBlueBalls on Jun 23, 2009 11:59 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah Quisp, you are a shining light in the infinite darkness that is Rich’s comments section.
I think what Lombardi is thinking (and what I kind of agree with) is that you can say, “Oh, well one of Hickey/Voynov/Drewiskie/Piskula will just jump into that 6th defenseman spot,” but you don’t really want to rely on them. Plus, the Kings need another defensive defenseman and none of the above really fit that bill (although I think Hickey does, but he does it without hitting). It’s much easier to sign someone like Chelios and then bench him in favor of someone like Hickey then pray a young guy makes the jump, because if he fails then you’re kind of boned.
And I think the only thing preventing me from saying, “Yeah, let’s just take Gauthier back,” is the fact that I loathe him with every fiber of my being. But here, I’ll make it up to your for my admittedly retarded idea: DOGS SURFING!!!!!!!! Yout better believe that’s my new desktop background.
The West Coast is the Best Coast.
by RudyKelly on Jun 23, 2009 12:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yay Quisp is here!! Great commentary on Rich’s blog, for sure.
As DodgerBlueBalls said… Anthony didn’t follow you over here, I hope… he didn’t, right?
Fuck you, Denis Gauthier. You suck at hockey... and life.
by Kevin Y on Jun 23, 2009 1:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Believe me, KY...
Anthony sure as hell ain’t the only one I’m worried about!
2009 LA Kings Hockey: thanks to Joe Sakic's snowblower, WE'RE BETTER THAN THE AV'S!!!!
by DodgerBlueBalls on Jun 23, 2009 1:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t comment on the blog so much anymore, so I don’t know who else over there is on Anthony level. Although even then, BoC is the type of atmosphere that basically begs for personalities like that.
By the way, according to a report in the ever-reliable Ottawa Sun (remember the Kopitar fiasco?), the Kings are one of the 10 teams on Dany Heatley’s trade wish list. Remember back four years ago when nobody in their right mind would want to come play for Los Angeles? The only reason we didn’t get Zdeno Chara was because he didn’t want to play for a sucky team.
Now the Kings are getting better and have a bright future, and it’s nice to see guys say (according to the reliable Ottawa Sun) they wouldn’t mind playing here. Although, I’d personally still rather have Ilya Kovalchuk than Heatley.
Also, the Kings are the only one of the 7 known (by the Sun) teams on that list that didn’t make the playoffs last season, so maybe things are turning in our favor in terms of free agency and big-name players.
Fuck you, Denis Gauthier. You suck at hockey... and life.
by Kevin Y on Jun 23, 2009 1:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I used to comment there with the nomenclature “Pat McGroyn,” but now I just read Rich’s stuff and comments from Quisp and a few others. Somebody with the name Shakes used to crack me up with their comments, but they have since moved on.
So basically, KY, are you trying to say that your order of preference for players to be acquired by the Kings is Kovalchuk > Gaborik > Heatly? I know you didn’t mention Gabby, but I wonder what your thoughts are about Gaborik (besides not knowing which name is more pussified: “Marian” or "Gabby)?
2009 LA Kings Hockey: thanks to Joe Sakic's snowblower, WE'RE BETTER THAN THE AV'S!!!!
by DodgerBlueBalls on Jun 23, 2009 2:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You all are too kind.
However, if they don’t follow me to my own blog, I don’t think they’ll find me here. Whoever they are. There has been some banning (at least one, but I’m not sure who) lately, and some voluntary withdrawals, so maybe it’s getting better.
As for Chelios, I wonder who would be a good fit in that eighth spot. I mean, you can’t really promote one of the prospects and then put him in the press box every night. There needs to be a Derek Armstrong of defensemen, the guy who plays 40 games and is great in the room. Yoda.
by Quisp on Jun 23, 2009 6:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The only things that concern me about Gaborik are the two injuries he had last season. He played two games, got injured and missed a couple months, played four games, got injured and missed three months, then scored 10-8=18 in only 11 games. He’s great when he plays, but coming off the rollercoaster ride he took last season, who knows what you’re gonna get.
As for Heatley, only reason I would be cautious of having him on my team is that he seems to have a tendency of signing extensions, and then forcing his way out. From what I understand, that happened in Atlanta. He got a big contract, but then wanted out, and got traded to Ottawa for Hossa (who I’d love to have also). Now, he signed the extension in Ottawa and is demanding a trade.
My order of preference would probably have to be Hossa > Kovalchuk > Gaborik/Heatley.
Only reason I have Hossa at the top is that he can sign as a free agent. Kovalchuk is gonna cost Frolov (okay), prospects (eh…) and an expensive contract. Kovalchuk is a UFA after next season, and he makes $7.5M next year. Hossa will cost no more than $7M, and if we can sign him that will allow us to trade Frolov. Of course, Hossa is probably really pissed because he couldn’t beat Detroit when he played for Pittsburgh, and now he can’t beat Pittsburgh when he played for Detroit, so heaven knows what he’s gonna do. The Wings want him back, but can they really afford Hossa, Franzen, Zetterberg, and Datsyuk? Those four players will be worth at least $25M alone. Then, add Rafalski’s $6M and Lidstrom’s $7.45M, and that’s nearly $40M on six players!! And the salary cap might come down also. I think Hossa’s gotta be the odd man out.
Fuck you, Denis Gauthier. You suck at hockey... and life.
by Kevin Y on Jun 23, 2009 9:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hossa
I keep looking at the Wings numbers — and there’s a great Wings salary cap generator out there to help us do that (google it, it’s cool; i wish someone would make one for every team…) — and I just don’t see any way they can keep Hossa without giving up Samuelsson, Hudler and one of Stuart or Kronwall… and if the cap comes down even a little, they’re going to have to clear even more space. Holmstrom, or something. It just doesn’t seem worth it.
by Quisp on Jun 23, 2009 9:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kronwall doesn’t go anywhere. There’s at least 10 guys before him on the chopping block. But there will be some players leaving this summer, if Hossa stays. Probably drop most of their pending RFA/UFA’s, and buyout someone (Maltby is my guess, maybe another guy too).
http://sacrificethebody.blogspot.com/
Sacrifice the Body - Examining the NHL through statistical analysis, reasoned thought, and blind conjecture.
by IAmJoe on Jun 23, 2009 10:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
wings
maltby doesn’t do it. they have to lose big contracts. the candidates are holstrom, cleary, stuart, kronwall, rafalski. samuelsson and hudler are toast, unless they deal rafalski for picks or something. i agree re kronwall. i think stuart is the obvious candidate. no matter how you carve it up, there are major losses in store there. even without signing hossa, they’re going to have to lose some people, especially if the cap goes down.
i’m still wondering if Hossa won’t sign a Kariya-like $1MM/one year contract. I think that’s what I would do. That would solve a lot of Detroit’s cap issues.
by Quisp on Jun 23, 2009 11:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i’m still wondering if Hossa won’t sign a Kariya-like $1MM/one year contract. I think that’s what I would do. That would solve a lot of Detroit’s cap issues.
Oh man, that would piss me off, maybe even more than when Kariya did it to us Ducks fans. At least we know that Kariya’s ploy didn’t work out.
http://www.battleofcali.com/
by Earl Sleek on Jun 24, 2009 7:17 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I assume everybody remembers what happened with the Avalanche, when they were great earlier this decade. They had a great roster of Sakic, Forsberg, Foote, Deadmarsh (and then Blake when he was traded). After the lockout that cancelled the 2004-05 season, they went to a salary cap, and basically they weren’t able to keep all of them. They had to release Foote and Forsberg, who both had good seasons before the lockout, and bassically they’ve gone down the tubes ever since (thanks greatly to Sakic’s snowblower). Now, they have the 3rd overall pick in the draft.
I’m afraid this might happen to the Wings also. They’re gonna have to move a lot of players and contracts to keep all these good players on the team. Something that works in their favor is the longterm contracts. Zetterberg has 12 more years (frontloaded), Franzen has 11 years (frontloaded), and Datsyuk still has 5 more years. Those guys are gonna stay
Fuck you, Denis Gauthier. You suck at hockey... and life.
by Kevin Y on Jun 24, 2009 7:46 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Part of the problem for the Avs coming out of the lockout was that they didn’t have anything in the prospects cupboard either. After years of short sighted moves, and not having much success with the draft or developing many of their own picks, it all finally caught up to them. The Wings have managed the cap coming out of the lockout a lot better than the Avs did, and their cupboard is not nearly as full. Hell, we had a logjam on the blueline and had to give Kyle Quincey away for nothing to the Kings.
I do think the Wings are going to get into a youth movement (at least, by their standards it will be) because due to the cap crunch, Helm and Abdelkader will be making the big club this year, Ericsson will get a full year up there (someone on that defense is getting bought out, and it won’t be Rafi or Kronwall, no matter what), and I think there’s a good chance Ville Leino gets kept this year too. In goal, since we can’t afford to sign a backup, its going to be Jimmy Howard’s chance to sink or swim, and if Ozzie gets bought out (I wouldn’t mind it), they could definitely try a Howard/Larsson tandem early on to see if anyone grabs the job.
They’ll never sink as low as the Avs this year anyways, as long as that combo of Datsyuk/Zetterberg/Franzen are around. That’s enough to win you a lot of games alone.
http://sacrificethebody.blogspot.com/
Sacrifice the Body - Examining the NHL through statistical analysis, reasoned thought, and blind conjecture.
by IAmJoe on Jun 24, 2009 10:09 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
oops
that should say the Wings’ prospect cupboard is not nearly as empty.
http://sacrificethebody.blogspot.com/
Sacrifice the Body - Examining the NHL through statistical analysis, reasoned thought, and blind conjecture.
by IAmJoe on Jun 24, 2009 10:11 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah the Avalanche were so good for so many years, so they didn’t get those great draft picks. That caught up to them when their good players left/got old/get caught in their snowblowers, and they had nobody in their system.
As for the Red Wings, they’ve been good for a very long time, and they always have excellent drafts. Here are some of their huge steals: Datsyuk (6th round, 171st overall, 1998), Zetterberg (7th, 210th, 1999), Filppula (3rd, 95th, 2002), Quincey (4th, 132nd, 2003. Thank you!!!), Franzen (3rd, 97th, 2004), and Helm (5th, 132nd, 2005). Datsyuk was picked 171st overall, the same as Luc Robitaille.
I don’t know if all that is because the Red Wings have excellent scouts or just an excellent developmental system, but they are basically doing what the Avalanche couldn’t. In fact, of all the players the Wings have drafted, sorted by how many points they had in their NHL career, only two of the top 6 were drafted in the first two rounds: Yzerman and Marcel Dionne.
So, one of two things are gonna happen: either they’re gonna be able to re-sign Hossa to a long-term contract, or they’ll be able to replace him within 3 years from excellent drafting and development.
Fuck you, Denis Gauthier. You suck at hockey... and life.
by Kevin Y on Jun 24, 2009 11:16 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think the most evident difference between the two is that if you look at the Avs, from where they were in 1996 when they first won a cup, and look at how their roster changed over the next 5 and 10 years, how many guys were you seeing join the team from within their own developmental system or through the draft? With the Wings, you see a lot more of that. That’s the big difference. The Wings are going to get kicked in the teeth here by a non-escalating cap, but they won’t get drummed down to the bottom of the league. I’d kind of like to see Hossa go, just to help keep the cap situation in a halfway decent shape.
I think its an interesting thing from a competitive standpoint that not all teams have minor league affilliates. I know not all of the Wings draft picks work their way through the Grand Rapids Griffins, and instead come from some sort of European league, but a lot of them do some time with the Griffins. Having a minor league affiliate that you can use to help get prospects into the sort of system the big team runs would be a big boost developmentally, as it means less of an adjustment upon hitting the big time, allowing incoming players to have less of a learning curve and more quickly hit their peak. I’d be curious to see some sort of success metrics on drafting and winning for teams with minor league affiliates versus those without.
Also, the fact that you guys got Quincey while I wish we could get rid of Lebda/Lilja and maybe Stuart too makes me sad.
http://sacrificethebody.blogspot.com/
Sacrifice the Body - Examining the NHL through statistical analysis, reasoned thought, and blind conjecture.
by IAmJoe on Jun 24, 2009 4:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, you got Lilja and Stuart from us, so it’s basically a trade of Lilja and Stuart for Quincey. I think we got the better end of that, for sure.
Fuck you, Denis Gauthier. You suck at hockey... and life.
by Kevin Y on Jun 25, 2009 8:04 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Quincey
Yes, except Quincey is basically our best defenseman behind Doughty, whereas Stuart, who I like, may be moving on for picks and prospects in the next few days, and Lilja has the headaches. Also, Stuart turned into two picks, one of which was traded for Brad Richardson, who presumably still has some value, and a 4th rounder tomorrow.
by Quisp on Jun 26, 2009 12:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
After Stuart’s Finals performance I think its even more obvious.
by Nut on Jun 24, 2009 8:30 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That was delicious, for some reason. I never knew I hated Brad Stuart so much until he left the Kings.
The West Coast is the Best Coast.
by RudyKelly on Jun 24, 2009 8:36 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
By the way, I want to make it known that despite Hossa > Kovalchuk > Gaborik/Heatley being my order of preference, that doesn’t mean I’ll be upset if the Kings do get Heatley. According to The Fourth Period, the Kings “are among the teams most interested in acquiring Senators star sniper Dany Heatley”, Yeah, it’s according to the Ottawa Sun, but I actually believe it this time.
Is Heatley my #1choice? No, but I wouldn’t mind him on the Kings if at the right price.. if it upgrades the current roster.
Fuck you, Denis Gauthier. You suck at hockey... and life.
by Kevin Y on Jun 25, 2009 8:54 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
As it stands now, the Kings have 3 guys that can play the penalty kill (Matt Greene, Sean O’Donnell, Jack Johnson and Drew Doughty
Great to see the Kings hockey-less summer hasn’t affected your mathematical skills, Rudy.
As for Chelios… he was injured a lot last season, although he is a proven winner. He’s basically an older, more injury-prone version of Sean O’Donnell.
..although I’d still much rather spend $2M on Chelios than $600K on Denis Motherfucking Gauthier.
Fuck you, Denis Gauthier. You suck at hockey... and life.
by Kevin Y on Jun 23, 2009 1:03 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
although I’d still much rather spend $2M on Chelios
$2M What? According to NHL numbers he made 750K last year.
I’m with Earl, get it done Dean. Maybe you guys should offer him 2.5M, just to be sure he picks LA.
by Mike in OC on Jun 23, 2009 1:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just a completely random number. Basically, I’d rather overpay for Chelios than underpay for Gauthier, is what I’m trying to say.
Fuck you, Denis Gauthier. You suck at hockey... and life.
by Kevin Y on Jun 23, 2009 8:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
2M for Chelios would make Jeff Finger’s deal look like a steal.
http://sacrificethebody.blogspot.com/
Sacrifice the Body - Examining the NHL through statistical analysis, reasoned thought, and blind conjecture.
by IAmJoe on Jun 23, 2009 10:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, he was a proven winner a long time ago. In the last few years, he’s proven himself to be nothing more than a very fit old man, who is more of a liability than anything else. I’m serious, Rudy skates better than Chelios does at 47. And I’ll bet Rudy makes less stupid turnovers too.
http://sacrificethebody.blogspot.com/
Sacrifice the Body - Examining the NHL through statistical analysis, reasoned thought, and blind conjecture.
by IAmJoe on Jun 23, 2009 10:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And I’ll bet Rudy’ll makes a lot less money than him also. Ain’t that unfair?
Fuck you, Denis Gauthier. You suck at hockey... and life.
by Kevin Y on Jun 24, 2009 7:27 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’d rather let Drewiskie play. Let Grandpa O’Donnell be the sole mentor (along with Mark Hardy).
by Nut on Jun 23, 2009 3:35 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Or Alec Martinez
2009 LA Kings Hockey: thanks to Joe Sakic's snowblower, WE'RE BETTER THAN THE AV'S!!!!
by DodgerBlueBalls on Jun 23, 2009 4:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Given that the Kings already have that mentor role filled with O’Donnell, they are sure to find better options hockey-wise if they choose to add someone.
That said, I think Chelios could still end up somewhere. At least Tampa Bay and possibly Atlanta, maybe others, could use both depth and experience on D. It’s in a situation like that where I could see a fit for Chelios.
by Malurous on Jun 25, 2009 6:23 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I honestly don’t see him going to a southern team like Tampa or Atlanta. The teams that could use him would be teams with young talent and the need for a veteran defensive presence, but I think both those teams teams need more help than Chelios can give. Also, he’s at the end of his career (whether he knows it or not), and I’m not sure he’d want to spend it on a team that’s clearly in development mode. I think he wants to play on a playoff contender.
I somehow get the feeling that he’ll go to a team like the Rangers or Canadiens, who both had incredibly disappointing offseasons, although both teams already have a few defensemen and a lot of free agent forwards they need to address. Chelios doesn’t either of those teams’ needs, but they seem to be involved in every free agent on the market every single offseason .
I was thinking maybe Boston, but they’re already in deep cap trouble; they’ve committed over $50M to 15 players next season, and the salary cap could come down this season. It’s already fairly certain that they’ll be forced to let Kessel leave as a free agent, although he is an RFA, and any team can force their hand by offering him a contract they know the Bruins can’t prevent. Maybe the Kings could try… except he’s a center, and DL despises offer sheets.
I really don’t know. I think Chelios’ll wind up with an Eastern Conference team. Possibly NY Rangers, Montreal, Boston… Pittsburgh?
Fuck you, Denis Gauthier. You suck at hockey... and life.
by Kevin Y on Jun 25, 2009 8:18 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Really, for the kind of role people want him in, Cheli should just go straight into coaching. I bet you the market for his services increases dramatically if he retires tomorrow and says he wants to be a coach.
http://sacrificethebody.blogspot.com/
Sacrifice the Body - Examining the NHL through statistical analysis, reasoned thought, and blind conjecture.
by IAmJoe on Jun 25, 2009 12:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m not sure he’d want to spend it on a team that’s clearly in development mode.
Yeah, I should have added what I did over at Mirtle’s site regarding the same subject, he’d of course have to be willing. My main point is that I’ll be surprised if there isn’t any kind of a market for him with teams like that.
You make a good point about those cap crunch teams. Chelios is going to be really cheap, so that makes him desirable for those teams. The problem is that Cup contenders should know better than to have Chelios play any significant role for them at this point. Perhaps a team like the Rangers who aren’t that good but still have trouble filling the roster could bite. Or some team that dumps a higher salaried number six guy to fill other holes. And/or someone who plans to play him early in the season and get a better guy late in the season when it’s easier on the cap.
by Malurous on Jun 25, 2009 2:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hold off on Boston for now. A report says the Bruins are talking to the Leafs about exchanging Kessel for Tomas Kaberle and the 7th overall pick. However, since Burke wants to move up in the draft to draft Brayden Schenn (or the Big 3 if he can), I highly doubt Burke would trade his pick away altogether unless he’s convinced he can sign Kessel as an RFA. Would it be considered tampering for the Leafs to discuss Kessel’s interest in playing for the Leafs before making this trade?
Fuck you, Denis Gauthier. You suck at hockey... and life.
by Kevin Y on Jun 26, 2009 8:04 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I really don’t know. I think Chelios’ll wind up with an Eastern Conference team
Adam Brady admited this in his blog yesterday as well. The reason is that Chllios wants easier travel demands if he plays another year, to which Brady added: “Yeah, my grandma hates to fly as well”
I thought that was funny.
by Mike in OC on Jun 25, 2009 9:38 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
i hate myself for thinking that Chelios might end up in the eastern conference until i read that same adam brady blog post
by Basic on Jul 7, 2009 6:32 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
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| GP | W | L | OTL | PT | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
San Jose
|
59 | 39 | 11 | 9 | 87 |
|
Phoenix
|
60 | 36 | 19 | 5 | 77 |
|
Los Angeles
|
59 | 36 | 20 | 3 | 75 |
|
Dallas
|
58 | 26 | 21 | 11 | 63 |
|
Anaheim
|
59 | 28 | 24 | 7 | 63 |
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