Scary New Territory for the Ducks: Surviving the Post-Pronger Curse

Per my chosen Simpsons metaphor, the problem with the "Prong-orail" isn't so much about the
excitement of that first town hall meeting, but rather the hockey devastation that occurs afterwards.
Like a lot of Ducks fans, the aftermath of the Chris Pronger trade has me worried. Don't get me wrong, I haven't soured on the return on the trade itself -- I'm still very enthused about that (plus with Pronger's reported extension, I think he was moved at exactly the right time) -- it's just that as I've paid attention to how other NHL cities have coped with the departure of the Elbowed One, I've developed a dread for the day when the Prong-orail would leave Anaheim's station. If you look at the table below, you can see the aftermath of destruction that Pronger has left in the wake of his three previous trades -- the three-year outlook isn't rosy, to say the least.
| Victims of the Prong-orail | Year One | Year Two | Year Three |
| Hartford Whalers | 34-39-9, 77 pts, 10th in east |
32-39-11, 75 pts, 11th in east |
relocated |
| St. Louis Blues | 21-46-15, 57 pts, 15th in west |
34-35-13, 81 pts, 14th in west |
33-36-13, 79 pts, 10th in west |
| Edmonton Oilers | 32-43-7, 71 pts, 12th in west |
41-35-6, 88 pts, 9th in west |
38-35-9, 85 pts, 11th in west |
Note that Hartford's seasons were played in a 13-team eastern conference.
Now there's a mix of reasons for the woes of the post-Pronger Whale/Blue/Oilers -- some mismanagement and bad bets in creating their rosters, injuries certainly had their effects -- but no city seemed to successfully "get over" Pronger's absence. In fact, the three cities combined have zero combined postseason wins since Pronger stopped wearing their jerseys. Curse? Coincidence? Crisis?
Tough to say -- but now Anaheim joins the list of former Pronger employers. The Prong-orail has left a path of postseason wasteland in three previous cities: can Anaheim avoid becoming the fourth in the row? Some meandering thoughts after the jump.
Now I'm not really sold on the notion of any real franchise curse, but the fact remains that next year's blueline will be radically more ordinary for Ducks fans used to the reassuring minutes of Pronger and Beauchemin. Past Captain Scott, suddenly there's a depth chart of varyingly new faces, none of which I've watched for a full season -- Whitney, Wisniewski, Sbisa, Brookbank, Mikkelson, Festerling. It's going to be really interesting to see how minutes shake out and how the group manages -- and by "interesting", I probably mean a mix of 80% "scary" and 20% "exciting".
The blueline's "return to mortal" reflects the tightened belt being felt throughout the roster. Unlike Burke, Barstool Bob has to work with what might be the fifth-lowest spending budget in the league next season. Recall, btw, the post I wrote back when Brian Burke left the team, when I pointed out three Burke moves we should be critical of (the Giguere contract, the Bertuzzi buyout, and becoming a salary cap ceiling team) -- right now those seem the obstacles that may prevent further improvement on the blueline, but we shall see.
My Kings buddy tells me that by trading Pronger, the Ducks have fallen out of his classification of "Cup contenders", and he may be right -- we don't have the blueline to win the 2007 way. Where the Ducks may win, if the lucky green shirt has its say, is in their forwards. Dare the Ducks try to become outscorers through offense?

"Hey guys, I'm back! Wait a sec, what happened to our logo?!"
On Lupul:
On paper, the return on the Pronger trade in 2009 mirrors that of the 2006 Pronger trade -- down to the very same Joffrey Lupul. However, that's oversimplistic -- it wasn't the same Pronger being traded (4 yrs tied up vs. 1 year), nor was it the same Lupul (first salary raise vs. second salary raise). When Lupul left us, he had yet to make his first million-dollar-per-year salary -- now he comes back at a cool $4.25M, fifth highest on the current payroll.
Grumbling Ducks fans are right -- it's not going to be a fabulous contract, assuming Lupul's flaws still exist. His shot's great and he's useful on the power play, but he definitely needs backchecking help and won't really be carrying any linemates. Still, salary did have to come back in the Pronger trade -- the days of dropping Fedorov-sized deals for nothing is over -- and even though the contract and the player aren't perfect, I still think Lupul improves the Ducks' offense when played correctly, and as I recall, Carlyle did it pretty well.
If Lupul can play well again with Todd Marchant like he did in 2006, then that helps spread offense down to the Ducks' third line, something that hasn't been done since 2006 (no offense, Sammy, Travis, & Rob). Or if he can ride along with Getzlaf & Perry, that could free up Bobby Ryan to help on another line. Lupul definitely wasn't the prize of the latest Pronger trade, but that's not to say that he doesn't quickly improve Carlyle's offensive options, and it's nice to see a familiar loopy grin again.

SUOMI! Picture snagged from Eyes on the Prize.
On Koivu:
Sheer awesomeness. I have been a Team Finland fan since Nagano -- basically because of the charismatic pull of Teemu's nationalism -- and I cannot wait for these two to join forces for Team Anaheim. With Koivu, there is simply too much to talk about -- the cancer battle, the Montreal captaincy, the little-man production, the selfless passing -- Saku oozes heroism and class.
Add to it the fantastic trend of accepting a smaller deal to come to Anaheim, and Koivu represents to me a lot of hope at surviving the post-Pronger curse. He'll work well in the offensive scheme -- a 1a center behind Getzlaf, a natural fit with countryman Selanne, and perhaps a move that could send Getzlaf back to the point on the PP. And to see Selanne and Koivu battle together one last season -- both for the Ducks and for Finland in the upcoming Olympics -- will be worth my price of admission alone. Two gloried-and-storied veterans and best friends -- I just get the feeling that this is so fitting for Teemu, the way he probably would want to retire. And I can't wait to see it.
* * *
I will maintain always that despite any sass I direct at him, Brian Burke was an awesome GM at building the Ducks. Even aside from his cup, probably the best thing that Burke did was coming out of the lockout, he built a four-year-expiring salary plan. Nearly every contract Burke put on the books (including his own and Carlyle's) came to a concurrent halt this summer, and it provided his replacement GM with incredible flexibility -- now with four years' salary cap and new rules experience, Bob Murray could construct the team as he saw fit. Burke's departure, while the timing may have irked some, was well-designed -- Murray took over at the point when it was time to decide which contracts needed extending.
So now we enter the era of Barstool Bob -- and I tell you, so far I'm with him on every move. Trading Pronger hurts in the short-term for sure, and Beauchemin, Kunitz, Pahlsson, and others -- these guys will certainly be missed. But they key in this salary cap game of hockey isn't always about having the best players; it's about having the best contract values. And I can be grateful that for a lot of former Ducks, we got to enjoy them while they were bargains.
Are the Ducks due for a curse? Perhaps -- nothing is set in stone like it was for us in the NiederPronger era. But it's exciting times -- the transformation of a team that was successful in one area of the game to one that tries to be successful in another. Frankly, and I don't know if I've felt this since the Pronger trade, I can't wait for training camp this year.
Hold on to them hats and glasses, because the Prong-orail has left the station. God help us all.
Go Ducks.
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104 comments
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Comments
Hat tip to the Twittering James Mirtle, but hmmmmmmmmmm.
Why is Nick Boynton listed on the Ducks roster page?
Perhaps we have more blueliners than I thought?
http://www.battleofcali.com/
by Earl Sleek on Jul 9, 2009 9:14 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
wasnt he on the yotes before?
I wanna throw up on your new shoes
by SPADE-IN-VICTORHELL on Jul 9, 2009 9:15 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Boston, Phoenix, and Florida per his Hockey Reference page. I don’t have much a scouting report on him, but he can eat minutes — that’s probably what we were looking for.
http://www.battleofcali.com/
by Earl Sleek on Jul 9, 2009 9:20 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Apparently it’s true — Further twittering says it’s a one-year deal. Stay tuned.
http://www.battleofcali.com/
by Earl Sleek on Jul 9, 2009 9:27 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That should give you some of the snarl back that Pronger took with him.
by Nut on Jul 9, 2009 9:29 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And definitely that was the glaring weakness. Who needs the week of July 1st when you can do it the week of July 8th?
Good work, GM Murray.
http://www.battleofcali.com/
by Earl Sleek on Jul 9, 2009 9:34 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And at much cheaper prices, also. I admit, getting Saku Koivu, Nick Boynton, and Joffrey Lupul for Chris Pronger, and it’ll maybe cost them an additional $3 million, is huge. Murray did a good job making these moves this offseason, not going after the big-name, big-dollar UFAs and improving his team in a couple areas.
However, I fear that maybe all these moves are only good for this season. Selanne has said he’ll retire after this season, the Niedermayers might both retire after this season (they still need to re-sign Rob), and Hiller is due for a significant pay raise in an offseason where the salary cap is likely to fall. That’s why Murray made the smart decisions of signing Koivu and Boynton to one-year deals only.
Fuck you, Denis Gauthier. You suck at hockey... and life.
by Kevin Y on Jul 9, 2009 9:53 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
(they still need to re-sign Rob)
I’m not sure there’s a consensus there. I’ve hesitated to add him to the “departed” list just yet, but last I heard the Ducks weren’t even talking to Rob’s agent.
Apparently it wasn’t a sticking point for Scott this go-round?
As for next summer, yeah there will need to be moves, but if Scott-Teemu-Koivu-Boynton take off there’s a ton of cash to be spent on things like Hiller and Ryan raises. It may actually be the plan.
http://www.battleofcali.com/
by Earl Sleek on Jul 9, 2009 10:08 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can’t imagine there is much room for Rob at this point is there?
GO DUCKS!!!
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SKeleven on Twitter
by SK eleven on Jul 9, 2009 10:11 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Their remaining forwards are Parros, Marchant (who they just re-signed to a new deal), Nokelainen, Christensen, Carter, Brown, and Ebbett, if Rob doesn’t come back. That doesn’t look like a bad 6 guys, but I’d have to imagine that Scott would want them to bring him back.
They have plenty of guys for those other six positions, but I just somehow believe that he’ll be back, maybe for $1 million. They can do that if they want to. But do they want to?
Fuck you, Denis Gauthier. You suck at hockey... and life.
by Kevin Y on Jul 9, 2009 10:15 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, if Rob’s returning, it’s at a tail-between-his-legs discount.
I dunno — my one pal is really rooting against Rob’s return, mostly because he wants to stop calling our captain “Scotty” and just call him “Niedermayer” again.
http://www.battleofcali.com/
by Earl Sleek on Jul 9, 2009 10:15 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I dunno — my one pal is really rooting against Rob’s return, mostly because he wants to stop calling our captain "Scotty" and just call him "Niedermayer" again.
Good point. I was never able to tell the Niedermayers apart. It was during this postseason I was finally able to distinguish between the two, and now I might not even have to. That sucks.
Fuck you, Denis Gauthier. You suck at hockey... and life.
by Kevin Y on Jul 9, 2009 10:22 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I dunno — my one pal is really rooting against Rob’s return, mostly because he wants to stop calling our captain "Scotty" and just call him "Niedermayer" again.
well, thats my number one reason too, of course.
I mean, is there a limit on healthy scratches…cause the Ducks just might be looking at a crap load every night if they do bother to sign Rob
GO DUCKS!!!
DUCKSandPUCKS.com
SKeleven on Twitter
by SK eleven on Jul 9, 2009 10:22 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I remember him playing against us when he was with phoenix…
hmmmm 6’-2"….and nut says snarl…sounds positive
I wanna throw up on your new shoes
by SPADE-IN-VICTORHELL on Jul 9, 2009 9:31 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Twitter @TheFourthPeriod says that Boynton’s agent confirms he’s signed a one-year deal with the Ducks.
Fuck you, Denis Gauthier. You suck at hockey... and life.
by Kevin Y on Jul 9, 2009 9:32 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think I remember an intermission special about him having diabetes, so you might need need to keep some snickers around as well.
by Nut on Jul 9, 2009 9:40 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
As ‘riders’ for player health issues go, Snickers isn’t bad. Better than having to keep diapers around for Pisani.
Anaheim Calling
http://anaheimcalling.blogspot.com
by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Jul 9, 2009 12:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
First McCarthy, now Boynton? Murph’s really revisiting that ’99 Draft.
Anaheim Calling
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by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Jul 9, 2009 12:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
yea, but what happened to McCarthy? He’s not on the roster anymore and I didn’t hear anything about it after that.
GO DUCKS!!!
DUCKSandPUCKS.com
SKeleven on Twitter
by SK eleven on Jul 9, 2009 1:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t even know who or what you guys are talking about — a similar situation, except without confirmation?
http://www.battleofcali.com/
by Earl Sleek on Jul 9, 2009 1:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yea, about a week ago, McCarthy was on the roster. There was no mention of him anywhere…and then hours later he was removed.
GO DUCKS!!!
DUCKSandPUCKS.com
SKeleven on Twitter
by SK eleven on Jul 9, 2009 1:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
NHL still has him listed as being with Anaheim though
GO DUCKS!!!
DUCKSandPUCKS.com
SKeleven on Twitter
by SK eleven on Jul 9, 2009 1:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hmm, well we shall see — I’m down for some McCarthy scare tactics.
http://www.battleofcali.com/
by Earl Sleek on Jul 9, 2009 1:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe he re-upped in The K. Point is just that Murph is revisiting two D men from that draft. One he picked, and one I’m sure he had scouted and wanted to pick. It’s as if his GM Mode is trying to pick up where it left off. I mean, I realize that Morrison didn’t work out, but Beauchemin did. Why is he disregarding the experience from his pro-scouting years now that he’s in the driver’s seat?
Anaheim Calling
http://anaheimcalling.blogspot.com
by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Jul 9, 2009 1:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
you cant be a ducks fan and be disapointed…they always seem to do somthing intresting every year…someone semi retires..they grab someone you wouldnt expect…
im intruiged once again..
for some reason i sense koivu will be waht adam oates was to us a while back..a wiley play making vetren that will fit right in..and not doug dead-weight
and u never know the blue line might surprise…someone now has the minutes and oppurtunity to step up and become a surprise…whitney? whiz? sbisa? al la beachamin that one year he was killer…
and if people have written us off the more the better..the ducks seem to thrive in the situation better than most teams!!
we shall c
I wanna throw up on your new shoes
by SPADE-IN-VICTORHELL on Jul 9, 2009 9:14 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
and u never know the blue line might surprise…someone now has the minutes and oppurtunity to step up and become a surprise…whitney? whiz? sbisa? al la beachamin that one year he was killer…
Yeah, that’s the big big question mark — there’s certainly opportunity. I also just wonder about Jonas Hiller — a big part of what made him successful in the postseason was that his blueline was so good at retrieving Hiller’s rebounds. If they lose that ability to some degree, does that hurt Jonas’ play? How much adapting will he need to do?
C’mon, training camp.
http://www.battleofcali.com/
by Earl Sleek on Jul 9, 2009 9:24 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
“May the Force be with you.”
“You don’t even know who I am, do you?”
by Donny Rivette on Jul 9, 2009 9:27 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
The Monorail episode was awesome — I didn’t even incorporate the analogy into my post very well, but I did want to pay homage.
http://www.battleofcali.com/
by Earl Sleek on Jul 9, 2009 9:43 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t think it’s a curse at all. I just think it’s based on Pronger being a really great player that their teams are considerably weaker when he departs. I mean he is a former MVP.
In the Blues’ defense, they also lost Al MacInnis to retirement the year that Pronger went to Edmonton. And the lockout followed Pronger’s last season in St. Louis.
As for the Whalers/Hurricanes, I don’t have much of a defense. The GM screwed up there. He got Brendan Shanahan from St. Louis in the trade, and then traded him for Paul Coffey, Keith Primeau, and a draft pick (eventually took Nikos Tselios, Chris Chelios’ cousin). I think they would’ve been much better off in the immediate seasons following the trade if they had kept Shanahan. I don’t know how much of the Pronger trade and the Shanahan trade had to do with the issues the franchise was having in Hartford that led them having to relocate, since I really hadn’t started following the league religiously until the second half of the 1999-2000 season. However, they at least have since won the Cup… against Pronger.
The Oilers… just have a douchy front office.
Fuck you, Denis Gauthier. You suck at hockey... and life.
by Kevin Y on Jul 9, 2009 9:48 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I oversimplified for sure, and I didn’t really include Carolina at all — the franchise survived elsewhere, which wouldn’t cheer me up very much if it happened to the Ducks.
But yeah, there’s definitely been other factors at work besides “Pronger left”. Bad decisions and bad situations — hopefully the Ducks don’t follow that path.
http://www.battleofcali.com/
by Earl Sleek on Jul 9, 2009 9:52 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t think they will. They’ve been a very competitive team, and a contender, every season since… well, basically every season since the Kings stopped being good. It was like a passing of the torch, if you will, so hopefully this will be the first season where both the Kings and Ducks compete for a playoff spot. A Kings/Ducks WCF (as unlikely as it may be to occur) would be great for hockey in Southern California.
The Ducks just seem to get better and better every year. They draft and develop great. For example, after they lost the Cup in 2003, they went out in the first round and drafted Getzlaf and Perry. Now, of course a player drafted in the first round is supposed to turn into a good player, but to have two great first-round picks in the same draft doesn’t happen every season.
They don’t always sign the biggest players available, yet they are always one of the best, and certainly most exciting teams, in the league. I don’t see that stopping because Pronger’s gone, especially since we pretty much predicted it would eventually happen as early as the trade deadline.
Fuck you, Denis Gauthier. You suck at hockey... and life.
by Kevin Y on Jul 9, 2009 10:02 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
so hopefully this will be the first season where both the Kings and Ducks compete for a playoff spot. A Kings/Ducks WCF (as unlikely as it may be to occur) would be great for hockey in Southern California.
Hear, hear. Doesn’t even have to be WCF — I think the first-round match-up against the Sharks was a big deal last year. And heck, I’m pulling even for a Kings-Sharks matchup. I’d like to watch one of these BoCs from the outside.
but to have two great first-round picks in the same draft doesn’t happen every season.
We’ll see what the payoff is, but thanks to the Pronger trade we had two first-rounders this year, and two again the next. Fingers crossed.
http://www.battleofcali.com/
by Earl Sleek on Jul 9, 2009 10:10 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
WCF is most likely if they do meet. I don’t see either team finishing in the Top 4 in the West. The Sharks, Red Wings, and Blackhawks will all be up there, as well as whoever manages to win the Northwest division. But that means that all three of those teams will have to be knocked off in order for the Kings and Ducks to meet. As much as I’d love it to happen, it’s just too damn unlikely, and that’s IF the Kings can make the playoffs.
Fuck you, Denis Gauthier. You suck at hockey... and life.
by Kevin Y on Jul 9, 2009 10:18 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hawks
I am a little bit skeptical of the Blackhawks repeating what they just did. Look at Dallas. They were in the conference final in 2008 and didn’t make the playoffs and they kept their goaltender. I know they got Hossa, and he’s a great player. In the regular season. They have to prove to me that they are as good as they were.
Same goes for Detroit. They are losing a lot of bodies. Sure, they will still have their main stars, but is it ridiculous to question the effect on their chemistry?
I don’t think I’m writing the Kings into the playoffs yet either, sorry. I’m not saying they won’t make it, but, I dunno.
The Sharks? They have to be hungry as hell this coming year. I would watch out for them.
by stormj on Jul 9, 2009 2:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
sharks will be sons of bitches again this year no doubt
I wanna throw up on your new shoes
by SPADE-IN-VICTORHELL on Jul 9, 2009 2:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
(big smiles @ that)
Ever get the feeling we are on a collision course with reality?
by ang6666 on Jul 9, 2009 8:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t see either team finishing in the Top 4 in the West
We’ll see what SJ does, but this ANA team is starting to look more like a team IMO built to put up great regular season standings. With DET getting weaker and CHI getting ready to blow it’s own head off I could see the Ducks getting pretty far up there in the west.
I more curious to see what this new look team can do in the playoffs though. That second line should be pretty wicked, but Teemu looked tired ass hell in the last post season.
by Mike in OC on Jul 9, 2009 3:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That’s one thing I wanted to mention but didn’t for fear that I’d be trolling, but I didn’t think Teemu looked very good outside of the last couple months. Neither did Scott, really. (Well, for him.) There’s potential that the Ducks younger guys getting better could be off-set by their older guys getting worse.
The West Coast is the Best Coast.
by RudyKelly on Jul 9, 2009 3:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, it’s my fear. The second line has age, and our best DMAN is getting old as well. In the past we could really do well in the playoffs because the team was young and hungry. Hell they did not even really hit thier stride it seemed until March, but I bet now we’ll be a better reg. season team, and not as reliable in the playoffs.
by Mike in OC on Jul 9, 2009 3:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So in other words, we’re turning into the Sharks? Reverse course before it’s too late!
Insanity is just a state of mind.
by giants9107 on Jul 9, 2009 5:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don’t get me wrong, Murph made the most of a bad situation. Pronger and Franky were gone no matter what. We have just been kind of spoiled with that defensive depth.
by Mike in OC on Jul 9, 2009 5:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And you see a problem with that? :)
Ever get the feeling we are on a collision course with reality?
by ang6666 on Jul 9, 2009 8:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
We’ll see what the payoff is, but thanks to the Pronger trade we had two first-rounders this year, and two again the next. Fingers crossed.
I was reminded of the 2003 draft this year. We took an attitude problem with our pick, and took a chance on a late first Rounder with the traded pick. Although, unlike 2003, I have a bad feeling about these guys.
Also, with all the extra money next year, I’d think Murray might be tempted to offer sheet someone. Especially if our pick is much lower than Philly’s.
Anaheim Calling
http://anaheimcalling.blogspot.com
by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Jul 9, 2009 10:53 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think they would’ve been much better off in the immediate seasons following the trade if they had kept Shanahan. I don’t know how much of the Pronger trade and the Shanahan trade had to do with the issues the franchise was having in Hartford that led them having to relocate,
A lot, although Whale4ever could probably add more here. Hartford dealt Pronger because he was an immature, still-not-21 kid who’d yet to save the franchise as ordered. Shanahan provided instant impact.
When Shanahan arrived, it was a serious shock to his system, so they essentially told him to give it a shot and if things weren’t better in a year or so, they could deal him. It apparently didn’t take him long to say, “Deal me.”
Lighthouse Hockey: Side effects may include Weight gain and frequent game loss.
by Dominik on Jul 9, 2009 1:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Shannahan demanded a trade out of there n/t
by stormj on Jul 9, 2009 2:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Indeed he did, and ironically enough, on the very same evening after putting a boot in Hartford’s ass I was working at a grocery store (tough period) and Shanny tapped me on the shoulder asking where he might find something. I wheeled around – Whalers hat and all – and talk about “worlds colliding”. He wanted out – quickly – and I wanted to rip whatever may have been left of his blackened heart out of his chest. Just can’t write this stuff. Punk.
by Donny Rivette on Jul 9, 2009 7:04 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Wow. The “where can I find…?” must have cried out for an O.P.P. joke.
Lighthouse Hockey: Side effects may include Weight gain and frequent game loss.
by Dominik on Jul 10, 2009 11:36 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pretty on it with the Hartford recap with the exception of one minor cog: Francis/Samuelsson/Jennings for Cullen/Zalapski/Parker.
That sealed it for many in the community.
by Donny Rivette on Jul 9, 2009 6:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Koivu and Boynton at those values are great bargains. Cap flexibility, must be a nice thing to have. Considering Carlyle is a good coach, I would expect even Lupul to be an asset. I don’t see how anyone can consider ANA to have had anything but an A+ offseason.
Really, I think you hinted at the key to breaking the Pronger curse earlier, Sleek. Does losing a stud blueline negatively impact Jonas Hiller? Kid was very very good at getting his body in front of the first shot, but didn’t have to worry as much about rebound control with two legends patrolling his crease.
Even if it does affect him though, having a legit second (and maybe even third) scoring line should at the very least keep ANA a bubble playoff team. Should be an interesting BOC this year with ANA treading, LA rising, and SJ coming down a little due to cap issues.
by ruben398 on Jul 9, 2009 11:01 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I don’t know about Boynton. According to Behind the Net, he’s about as good as Denis Gauthier. So I applaud this signing and encourage the Ducks to play him 20+ minutes a night.
The West Coast is the Best Coast.
by RudyKelly on Jul 9, 2009 11:19 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Unfortunately, Gauthier’s season last year with us was probably a fluke. The REAL Denis Gauthier is likely an extremely reliable defender.
Fuck you, Denis Gauthier. You suck at hockey... and life.
by Kevin Y on Jul 9, 2009 1:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
he sounds like a frenchie clone…mean and mediocre at times…im optomistic..i agree with sleek needed that toughness…with whitney’s big time softness
I wanna throw up on your new shoes
by SPADE-IN-VICTORHELL on Jul 9, 2009 1:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nick Boynton is mediocre, but he’s at least experienced. Even if that “experience” mainly amounts to watching goals go in on his end.
The combination of losing their goalie coach and Chris Pronger will probably hurt Jonas Hiller’s numbers but look on the bright side: they’ll be able to figure out if he truly is the goalie of the future via trial by fire :)
When I'm not battling in California:
http://www.cyclelikesedins.com
by jamestobrien on Jul 9, 2009 11:25 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
they’ll be able to figure out if he truly is the goalie of the future via trial by fire :)
which is why I wouldn’t expect Jiggy to be moved before the season begins.
GO DUCKS!!!
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by SK eleven on Jul 9, 2009 11:29 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, it may be the fourth-most reason.
Top reason is he has a no-movement clause in his contract.
Second reason is he makes $6M against the cap this year and next.
Third reason is his inability to hold Anaheim’s net last year.
But yeah, I guess trial by fire is number four why I wouldn’t expect a trade this summer.
http://www.battleofcali.com/
by Earl Sleek on Jul 9, 2009 11:55 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I think if Giguere is gonna get moved, it’ll most likely be next offseason.
Fuck you, Denis Gauthier. You suck at hockey... and life.
by Kevin Y on Jul 9, 2009 1:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think there may be a window at the trade deadline — most of his 2009-10 salary will be paid by then, and who knows what the goaltending landscape will look like?
But also, who knows whether we’ll still be eager to trade Giguere by then? It’s completely possible he rebounds.
http://www.battleofcali.com/
by Earl Sleek on Jul 9, 2009 1:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I always thought the Leafs would try to go after him because of Burke, Allaire, and their goaltending woes. But with their signing of Swedish G Gustavsson, I take their name off the list.
Not only do we not know if Hiller can perform like he did last season this coming year, but we’ll also have to wait a long while before we know what other teams will be in need of goaltenders.
Fuck you, Denis Gauthier. You suck at hockey... and life.
by Kevin Y on Jul 9, 2009 1:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No way they both stay until the end of the season. Murray doesn’t wave goodbye to assets. He trades HIller or he signs HIller and trades Giguere. The man knows no other way.
Anaheim Calling
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by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Jul 9, 2009 1:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, he’s seen the Bryzgalov path, too, but yeah — that was a one-time deal.
http://www.battleofcali.com/
by Earl Sleek on Jul 9, 2009 1:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m not too sure if you’re going to find a team that is 1) in playoff contention, 2) has shitty goaltending, and 3) has cap space. That sounds pretty rare.
The West Coast is the Best Coast.
by RudyKelly on Jul 9, 2009 1:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Off the top of my head, Montreal can still do it. And Jiggy for sure signed off to play for Montreal.
Anaheim Calling
http://anaheimcalling.blogspot.com
by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Jul 9, 2009 1:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m gonna wager he vehemently disagreed with that. Not that Barstool Bob wouldn’t be a man of his word. I just doubt he’d ever give an asset his word on something like that.
He’s definitely a different character from Burke, though. He refuses to make an offer to Wisniewski for fear he’ll overvalue him, and refused to make an offer to Beauchemin for fear he’d undervalue him. Oh yeah, and he’s probably going to manage to alienate them both. Hrm.
Anaheim Calling
http://anaheimcalling.blogspot.com
by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Jul 9, 2009 1:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No movement
Won’t be a barrier if he’s not getting the starter’s role—he’ll want out.
by stormj on Jul 9, 2009 3:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just want to say that Lupul has the smile of a young Jack Nicholson in that picture. Or maybe a middle-aged Jack.
“What’s the matter with ya? You’re screwin’ just like a chinaman!”
Anaheim Calling
http://anaheimcalling.blogspot.com
by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Jul 9, 2009 12:49 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
sleek
barstool bob has gotta be done now right?
only thing left would be a jiggy move(but not even necessary now unless the owners order it to save money)..but only if we get some great offer which some team would only do if there desperate right?
i assume things are gonna go real quiet on the duck news
I wanna throw up on your new shoes
by SPADE-IN-VICTORHELL on Jul 9, 2009 1:56 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
barstool bob has gotta be done now right?
I’d guess so, but I’ve got a terrible record of anticipating Murray’s next move.
http://www.battleofcali.com/
by Earl Sleek on Jul 9, 2009 2:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i think we can anticipate he wont be throwing any more bar stools though right?
I think were safe on that one
I wanna throw up on your new shoes
by SPADE-IN-VICTORHELL on Jul 9, 2009 2:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
One of my Ducks buddies is giving me some shit for popularizing the nickname “Barstool Bob”, as really, it’s overblowing a weird non-incident. But I keep telling him — that’s exactly why the nickname works.
http://www.battleofcali.com/
by Earl Sleek on Jul 9, 2009 2:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Shame on me…it wasn’t until spade made the reference did I understand where it came from.
It’s funny though. And, unfortunately, it works.
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by SK eleven on Jul 9, 2009 3:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, I give him a pass because i already assumed he had anger management issues, but that’s only because no hockey player I ever played with/against was mentally stable.
But if you’d never met a hockey player before, I think it would be an incident-incident.
Anaheim Calling
http://anaheimcalling.blogspot.com
by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Jul 9, 2009 3:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Personally I like the fact that he was so pissed off by the Ducks losing in the playoffs. Barstool Bob wants the Ducks to win, and not just to keep his job. That’s admirable in a GM
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by Bleys on Jul 10, 2009 9:05 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
it’s overblowing a weird non-incident. But I keep telling him — that’s exactly why the nickname works.
Precisely! If it were a serious incident (“Rapist Jones,” or “Manslaughter Miller”), it wouldn’t really work. At least not for your own guy.
Lighthouse Hockey: Side effects may include Weight gain and frequent game loss.
by Dominik on Jul 9, 2009 3:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And to see Selanne and Koivu battle together one last season — both for the Ducks and for Finland in the upcoming Olympics — will be worth my price of admission alone. Two gloried-and-storied veterans and best friends — I just get the feeling that this is so fitting for Teemu, the way he probably would want to retire.
Wouldn’t it be even more fitting if the Teemu was somehow able to get Paul Kariya on the left side again? I wonder if Teemu ever had dreams about playing with Koivu and Kariya on the same line.
by Wooster11 on Jul 9, 2009 1:57 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Ugh
You know the same thought crossed my mind, but I think we have enough evidence now to conclude that Teemu propped up Paul, not the other way around, and I’m not sure how much we want to see him at the Ponda…but I’d take him for Giguere. (:
by stormj on Jul 9, 2009 2:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
but I think we have enough evidence now to conclude that Teemu propped up Paul, not the other way around
I won’t be convinced of this. I dunno, maybe I saw too many of the games. They were an awesome duo, but I don’t know if it was the case of either one propping up the other. Both had tons of talent, and certainly they helped each other, but they would have been fine anywhere.
http://www.battleofcali.com/
by Earl Sleek on Jul 9, 2009 2:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ditto
I think Paul is a great playmaker, and would have been a dominant goal scorer pre-Dead Puck. The wild thing was that when the Dynamic Duo played together, Paul turned Teemu into a playmaker, too. Now, Teemu can’t even complete a pass longer than 10 feet. It was a chemistry thing that made them both better. I don’t think it’s proper to compare their performance together to their performance apart.
And they did an interview during our Cup year, where I remember Teemu had to stop the interviewer to reiterate how rare it is to find that kind of chemistry, to know exactly what the other person is doing. I doubt there was any ‘prop’-ping involved.
Anaheim Calling
http://anaheimcalling.blogspot.com
by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Jul 9, 2009 2:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
well
Then it’s a kind of chemistry that has been a lot rarer for Kariya, because he has never been the same. Teemu didn’t exactly rock the world in Colorado or San Jose, but he was kicking butt before he came to Anaheim with different players, and kicking butt when he came back with yet other different players, mostly Andy MacDonald.
You can say Kariya would have been a dominant player in a different era, but that’s no more or less speculative than me suggesting than my suggestion that their separate performance proves what I’m saying.
Even if Teemu wasn’t making Paul seem better than he was, fucking Paul wasn’t making Teemu seem better, and that was the impression in a lot of circles a while ago, especially, ahem, in SAN JOSE.
by stormj on Jul 9, 2009 3:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I gotta totally disagree on the San Jose thing. I’m from the Bay, and have many the Sharks fan as friends. Other than blowing a goal in front of a wide open goal mouth, there is a general consensus amongst my friends that Teemu had trouble creating his own goals without Paul, and that his love of the 5-hole wasn’t going to get it done against some of the better butterfly tenders. And oh, yeah, that inability to pass isn’t a new thing.
The speculation on how they would have played in a different era was something they suggested. In that same interview I referenced, they pointed out that they were taking advantage of some leftover from the offensive era in the 80s. Gretzky and Kurri agreed that Kariya and Selanne could have had ridiculously explosive seasons had they played in the prior era. We’re talking about a wide-open game and a majority of goaltenders that grew up playing stand-up. That’s not exactly rampant speculation.
And as far as comparing their separate performance, they each had a dominant season after separating, and it was the same season. A lot of that was power play production for both of them. In fact, in his Anaheim renaissance, between 48-62% of Teemu’s goals every year are power play goals The fact that Paul hasn’t found a finisher of Teemu’s caliber does not set him apart from other playmakers who lose quality finishers in their careers.
As far as I’m concerned, each guy was great before the other (Paul is the greatest NCAA player I’ve ever seen and Teemu’s rookie season won’t be matched until they bring back stand-up goaltending). They were special together, but neither of their games was suited to the Dead Puck era. Since separating, they are both power play guys to varying success.
Anaheim Calling
http://anaheimcalling.blogspot.com
by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Jul 9, 2009 4:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, and if you’re not allowed to clutch and grab (or crosscheck in the face) a guy as small and quick as Kariya was, you don’t think he scores more goals in the NHL?
Anaheim Calling
http://anaheimcalling.blogspot.com
by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Jul 9, 2009 4:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Other than blowing a goal in front of a wide open goal mouth, there is a general consensus amongst my friends that Teemu had trouble creating his own goals without Paul
That was the general consensus I was referring to.
by stormj on Jul 9, 2009 4:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I was under the impression that Paul Kariya’s struggles (recently, at least) have had as much to do with injuries as anything else.
When I'm not battling in California:
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by jamestobrien on Jul 9, 2009 5:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He’s got a hip problem, which turned out to be in both hips. He claims he feels better than he has in years after the surgeries. Who knows? Selanne came back from a knee problem rejuvenated.
But I’d say his game started to change after the head injuries. And he’s most comfortable on the power play with room to skate and make moves. So, I won’t argue that he’s seen a decline. It’s something like 10-points a year since he had 85 his first year in Nashville, but I can’t exactly argue with storm that 65 is less than 85
Anaheim Calling
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by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Jul 9, 2009 5:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Separation
Look, I’m not saying, nor did I ever say, that Paul Kariya sucked. I just personally don’t think the is of the same caliber as Teemu Selanne.
I don’t know what a dominant season is—or at least what you mean by it. Kariya best moments to me were in the 2003 playoffs, without Teemu. Teemu was arguably at his best in 1993!
All I’m saying is, there was an opinion—which I think you actually confirmed—that especially in other places Teemu played that he was being made to look better by Paul. I’m saying that’s not the case and if anything it was the other way around, in my opinion.
And I based that on the fact that Teemu had two 40 goal seasons without Paul, won a Cup and his production is still higher than Kariya’s, at least in GPG over the last few seasons, power play or not.
And yes, I think Kariya would have been a better player in the 80s, but my agreeing to that doesn’t make it less speculative, does it?
by stormj on Jul 9, 2009 4:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I misunderstood your San Jose comment because I’m new to the blogosphere, and didn’t get the reference. I apologize.
I would say that 2003 was proof that Kariya could play on a defensive playoff team, but I could never call that dominant, not offensively. Kariya’s 100-point season in Maine, everything pre-crosscheck to the face and ’99 when he and Selanne both had 100 points on 50% power play scoring— those would be dominant in my book. And maybe his first post-lockout year in Nashville.
Comparing their production seems a bit unfair when 45-60% of Selanne’s goals in his second tour in Anaheim have been power play goals. And I haven’t done the math, but I’m sure a good chunk of Kariya’s points are power play points. I would think you were just comparing man-advantage squads if you used those statistics to back up your hypothesis.
I’d never heard anyone make an argument for Selanne being propped up by Kariya. I would think that would be ludicrous position for anyone who saw the Jets’ Olympic Line play. But I would describe Selanne’s game as skating and looking for the 5-hole. The NHL was still made for him in 1993. Over the years, the game got slower and goaltenders got better at offering the 5-hole and taking it away. That had a greater affect on his game than losing Paul Kariya. And Paul Kariya’s head injuries and whatever happened to his hips had a greater affect on making him a hesitant perimeter player than the loss of Teemu Selanne.
They were special together, but in the grand scheme of things, probably had their best seasons playing apart in their rookie and early seasons. The whole X propped up Y debate seems like an excuse to call one guy overrated. And if you watched either of them as rookies, no one is overrated here.
Anaheim Calling
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by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Jul 9, 2009 5:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
They were special together, but in the grand scheme of things, probably had their best seasons playing apart in their rookie and early seasons. The whole X propped up Y debate seems like an excuse to call one guy overrated. And if you watched either of them as rookies, no one is overrated here.
Well said, Arthur. There should be no doubt that Kariya and Selanne were great together … can’t it just be left at that? Perhaps aging and injuries have an “NFL running back turning 30” effect on Kariya, as well. Besides, going to Nashville/St. Louis isn’t going to give you a ton of offensive support.
When I'm not battling in California:
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by jamestobrien on Jul 10, 2009 1:06 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fun motifs
Both the Simpsons rail analogy and the Pronger Curse: sweet.
For the reasons you cite, I’m sure Anaheim will be the best survivor of the post-Pronger bunch. If for nothing else, because Niedermayer is still there. The other three teams didn’t have a guy like that to fall back on. Also: Hartford was a mess, St. Louis was a mess, and Edmonton mistakenly interpreted its Cinderella trip to the finals to mean it wasn’t a mess. Bob Murray, sir, is no mess.
Q: How will Philly survive the post-Pronger era, given the $5M cap hit and the fact they’ve never shown much cap sense?
Lighthouse Hockey: Side effects may include Weight gain and frequent game loss.
by Dominik on Jul 9, 2009 2:08 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Philly
Philly will be fine. If their interpretation of the CBA prevails, they will be able to remove the cap hit from Pronger before he gets useless. Anyway, Philly fans are hungry for a Cup, but the reality is they’ve been a steady competitor for over 30 years, even if it’s been that long since they did get a Cup. No reason to think they won’t be fine.
by stormj on Jul 9, 2009 2:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
We shall see — I’m damn happy it’s not Anaheim who got on the paying end of that contract. Money-wise, there’s nothing to worry about in Philly, but if they’re wasting cap space, that’s another thing.
Still, I won’t complain if other teams want to tie their own hands. I’ll even offer free rope.
http://www.battleofcali.com/
by Earl Sleek on Jul 9, 2009 2:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed they’re a well-moneyed, constant competitor — which would make it all the more galling (if I were a fan) that they often use methods that are … unsound.
Getting Pronger was a good if pricey move. Rushing into an extension that the NHL has clearly stated will count against their cap? Head-scratching. Goalies are a funny, unpredictable bunch, but the fact they’re taking yet another gamble on that position after 20 years of goalie tomfoolery? Odd.
As a fan of an Atlantic team that does not (cannot?) spend to the cap, it gives me some solace that two of the Atlantic teams that do, do not do so wisely.
Lighthouse Hockey: Side effects may include Weight gain and frequent game loss.
by Dominik on Jul 9, 2009 3:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I will say this: I feel much better about the Wings taking on the Ducks now than I did last year. Pronger is scary good, and now he’s not even in the conference. A team that is going to put more of an emphasis on scoring goals, and gave up big portions of its phenomenal defense is much less scary than the “we’re gonna break you in half and eat your children and score the game winner with their blood dripping from our chins and by the way our goalies are outrageously good” Ducks. Great goalies are made even better by fantastic defenses that level anyone who leaves the boards to approach the net, and that is why I think Pronger was a better fit for the Ducks than Niedermayer. Losses on that blueline should hopefully make it easier to beat Ducks goalies, and not many teams can beat Detroit in a high scoring game.
Detroit is definitely on its heels a bit though, and especially pending this Hudler-to-the-KHL thing, could be a little more vulnerable this coming season. I think Anaheim and Detroit have clearly been the two best teams in the West for the last several years. If anyone else in the West is going to try to make a serious Cup run, the next two years would be a great time to do it.
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by IAmJoe on Jul 10, 2009 11:13 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
There ya go...
NOW that Steve McCarthy thing is real…
GO DUCKS!!!
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by SK eleven on Jul 10, 2009 11:16 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I wonder if Rick Paterson is still in charge of pro scouting. I know he was supposed to get a promotion this offseason. I would think he’d oppose signing two guys whose last coaches both hated them. Or at least offer up some alternatives.
Anaheim Calling
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by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Jul 10, 2009 12:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
About the so called "Pronger Curse"
“Defensemen Chris Pronger (acquired from the Hartford Whalers in 1995 for Shanahan), Pavol Demitra, Pierre Turgeon, Al MacInnis, and goalie Roman Turek kept the Blues a contender. In 1999–2000, they notched a franchise-record 114 points during the regular season, earning the Presidents’ Trophy for the league’s best record. However, they were stunned by the San Jose Sharks in the first round in seven games. In 2001, the Blues advanced to the Western Conference Finals before bowing out in five games to eventual Champions Colorado Avalanche. They remained competitive for the next three years, but never got past the second round.”
The Blues got pronger in 1996, The Blues made the playoffs every year consecutively between 1980-2002. Where the fuck do your stats come from?
Fuck Detroit
by DasBlues74 on Jul 14, 2009 8:50 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Where the fuck do your stats come from?
Dude, relax. It’s called the “Post-Pronger Curse”, not the “Pronger Curse”. The Blues making the playoffs every consecutive year between 1980-2002 doesn’t mean they made the playoffs in the three years after Pronger’s departure, which is where my stats come from.
http://www.battleofcali.com/
by Earl Sleek on Jul 14, 2009 9:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
There was a three year period prior, not post to the lack of playoff appearances
All of this of course is very much now in the past, the Blues have and will continue to be established as a force in not only the Central Division, toughest top to bottom division in the NHL, but in the West as well. I do expect LA to be a much different team this year especially with the establishment of a legitimate starting goalie with the confidence of a starting goalie and recent additions.
Pronger is notorious for flagrant penalties, its as if he attempts to be suspended during the playoffs. I hope Sid The Kid, and Ovie are ready to be mauled by the skeezzeee, perfect fit for Philly, it’s like too obvious.
Fuck Detroit
by DasBlues74 on Jul 14, 2009 10:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
misunderstood
i wasnt trying to freak out
had a little scotch in me
i was correcting the fact that before he even left we didn’t make the playoffs for 2 of his last 4 years, not trying to be a homer and religiously defend my team
Fuck Detroit
by DasBlues74 on Jul 14, 2009 10:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
had a little scotch in me
No worries, scotch is a totally acceptable excuse for this blog.
And don’t get me wrong — I’m not really dissing the Blues going forward. Or even in that stretch — they’re just used to illustrate a trend.
http://www.battleofcali.com/
by Earl Sleek on Jul 14, 2009 10:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
scotch. whiskey..wine…thats how we roll round here….
going off the handle? misunderstandings?
this guy would fit in round here tee-hee
Put those cookies back..Mutha fucka!!
by SPADE-IN-VICTORHELL on Jul 15, 2009 3:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
so i wasn’t actually correcting anything because you were talking about after he leaves and not post-acquisition as i had thought
my bad
Fuck Detroit
by DasBlues74 on Jul 15, 2009 2:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, I’d never knock Pronger post-acquisition. This Ducks fan particularly likes Year One of Pronger — that one was Stanley nice.
http://www.battleofcali.com/
by Earl Sleek on Jul 15, 2009 3:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

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