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Training Camp Battles: #2 Goaltender

Ladies and gentlemen, the toughest battle to call in camp.  We've gone over two "Older prospect v. younger stud" battles already (Purcell v. Moller, Drewiske v. Hickey), but this battle features the weakest prospect versus perhaps the best stud.  Erik Ersberg versus Jonathan Bernier comes to the eternal question that is being asked at training camps around the country: at what point is playing limited minutes worse than playing all the time at a lower level?  Is it playing time or level of competition that is best for developing a prospect?  Oddly enough, this battle is difficult to call because it doesn't come down to either man; it comes down to Jonathan Quick.

(This is off-topic, but don't the Kings have a pretty good looking set of goaltenders?  Ersberg looks like a cherub, Bernier has the smoldering look of a leading man, and even Quick has a goofy charm.  I mean, none of them are really hideous like Ryan Miller.  Haha, that guy is a goober.)

The Favorite:


Erik Ersberg

#31 / Goalie / Los Angeles Kings

6-0

185

Mar 08, 1982


 Preseason Stats: 2 games, 3.00 GAA, .878 SV%

I'm on record as not being the biggest Erik Ersberg fan.  He plays really small in net and is vulnerable to rebounds.  Actually, he's kind of like a worse Jonas Hiller, which is coincidental since they were both signed at the same time.  But he's not bad or anything, he's just not good.  He's bread.  He's Swedish.  (Hey, he is!)  Erik Ersberg is built for a true back-up role, where he sits on the bench with a blank expression on his face for 60+ games a season and doesn't kill you when he does play.  If the Kings think Jonathan Quick is ready for ~65 games this season, Ersberg is the best choice to back him up because that is what he is built for. 

Star-divide

The Challenger:


Jonathan Bernier

#45 / Goalie / Los Angeles Kings

5-11

184

Aug 07, 1988


 

Preseason Stats: 2 Games, 2.00 GAA, .909 SV %

Goaltenders as a whole have a large ego but low self-esteem.  You get a large ego from crushing the hopes of so many people; you ruin someone's day so many times and you begin feeling all-powerful.  You get the low self-esteem from hearing the cheers and seeing the red light whenever a goal is scored.  Your teammates will come by and tap you on the pads and tell you it's their fault, but you know that the other guys on the bench are criticizing you.  To cope, most goaltenders become standoff-ish and arrogant because they begin telling themselves that they're a good goaltender and it's the fault of the rest of the team that the goal was scored.  (Sorry, defensemen, but I blame you for everything.)  When a goaltender has that illusion shattered, they usually suck for a while until they can develop that illusion back up.

Jonathan Bernier had that illusion shattered twice last season: first when he didn't make the team out of training camp, then again when Jonathan Quick was called up over him.  Bernier has been told and has told himself that he is a great goaltender and would rise to stardom to the NHL, but he was suddenly met with the cold, hard realization that he wasn't good enough.  That hurts and it takes a while to recover from that.  Bernier did recover by the end of last season and was the goaltender everyone expected him to be.  I think he will become a good goaltender in the NHL, although probably not the great goaltener everyone predicted.  The best way to handle him, I believe, is to challenge him and make him the underdog.  His large ego can be used for good as well as evil.  Tell him Jonathan Quick is better than him.  Make him prove everyone wrong over and over.  I think the best course of action for the Kings is to pit Quick and Bernier in a season-long challenge to see who's the best.

Of course, if the Kings think Quick is already the best and trust him to play all the time, then there's not really much reason to keep Bernier up... is there?  There actually isn't much difference in skill level between most NHL'ers and the superstars in the AHL; the difference is that the guys in the NHL can do all that stuff during games.  If Bernier is not going to see game situations in the NHL then there's not much point in keeping him up.  I think.  Of course, there's not too much he's going to learn in the AHL, and if anything he's going to develop bad habits as he uses his athleticism in situations he can't in the NHL.  I think, and this is just me, that the best situation for the Kings is to have Quick and Ersberg up in the NHL and Bernier in the AHL, at least to start.  I would not be surprised at all if the Kings decide to keep all 3 goaltenders in the NHL for a little while, though.  Let all 3 of them duke it out and pick the best 2.

Dustin Brown Sez...

 

 

 

 

 

...Dustin?  Hey, where are you?  You're suppo-

Seriousryanmiller_medium

"Why hello Rudy."

Ahh!  Oh, hey Ryan.  Where's Dustin, he's supposed to do this segment for me.

"Dustin is... elsewhere.  Don't worry, he's very happy with the places he is in right now."

Oh ok... wait, did you say "places?"

"I don't know.  Did I?"

Smilingryanmiller_medium

Hehe.  Look, Ryan, I know I called you ugly a little while ago, and I don't want you to be mad or anyth-

"Mad?  Why would I be mad?  I thought it was hilarious.  I just came to return the favor."

...Return the favor?

"Yes, Rudy.  You made me smile, now I'm going to make you smile.  Do you want to hear a joke?"

Uh, sure.

"Here's a joke: what has two legs and is about to die?"

Look Ryan, you're starting to scare me.  Why don't you just leave and we'll- hey, what are you doing?  Ryan, Get away from me!

Thering_medium

AIYEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Blood_red_medium

Poll
Who should be the Kings' #2 goaltender?
Erik Ersberg
71 votes
Jonathan Bernier
58 votes

129 votes | Poll has closed

0 recs  |  Comment 21 comments |

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Comments

Display:

Oh Rudy you crack me up every time.

by superfan#99 on Sep 24, 2009 12:43 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

That dialogue was surprisingly appropriate for those Miller photos.

Also, I say make it Bernier because I’m afraid he’ll cry if he gets sent down and I don’t like it when pretty boys cry.

by Donzo on Sep 24, 2009 12:52 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Rudy,

My friend Greg and I have an ongoing debate on who we think will be the King’s starting goalie of the future. I pick Bernier since he’s a proven winner, he has better technique and he’s French Canadien, but Greg thinks it will be Quick because he’s more athletic than Bernier and he points out that you can’t teach athleticism but you can teach technique. By the way, Greg is a goalie.

In your opinion, is he right? I’m only asking because you’re the only goalie I can ask other than my cousin who lives in Idaho and he’s kind of a dick. Your description of a goalie’s psyche doesn’t really describe Greg, but totally describes my cousin. Weird.

by Irish Pat on Sep 24, 2009 1:35 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I’ve been working on something for a while trying to compare the two but I usually decide to make a dick joke instead, but in short I’d say that I think Quick will be better. He’s more athletic, bigger, and he’s not so tied down to the butterfly like Bernier is. Bernier’s problem is that, like a lot of goalies his age, he’s had the butterfly drilled into him since he was small so he doesn’t know how to improvise when he needs to. Goaltenders like Marc-Andre Fleury can get away with it because he’s huge (and he’s gotten a lot better about just being a butterfly goalie since he came into the league), but Bernier doesn’t have that kind of size. I don’t know, we’ll see.

The West Coast is the Best Coast.

by RudyKelly on Sep 24, 2009 2:06 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

heres a question for everyone? you think teams have adjusted tot he butterfly style? i.e. more of trying to bank off the back boards…more screening then ever etc?

maybe why jiggy has been on the decline? wish he could just teach hiller not to give up so many fuckin rebounds

Put those cookies back..Mutha fucka!!

by SPADE-IN-VICTORHELL on Sep 24, 2009 2:18 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I have a hardon for butterfly goalies like Hiller, Giguere, Kipper (before the suck), etc. If its played right, its the hardest thing to beat, especially if the team plays defense in front of them. Athleticism is always great too, but a slug that played the butterfly to perfection would be a pretty damn good goalie too.

http://sacrificethebody.blogspot.com/
Sacrifice the Body - Examining the NHL through statistical analysis, reasoned thought, and blind conjecture.

by IAmJoe on Sep 24, 2009 8:09 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

man…ryan miller looks like the biggest douche in those picks..

Put those cookies back..Mutha fucka!!

by SPADE-IN-VICTORHELL on Sep 24, 2009 1:47 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Thanks Rudy.

Damn. I was really hoping my friend might be wrong, but I do hope if Quick does retain the gig that he keeps it for the next decade and becomes a top 5 goalie. No matter what I just want what’s best for the Kings, but ever since they drafted Bernier I was hoping for the 2nd coming of Martin Brodeur. I hope Bernier does excel even if I’m only dreaming. At least the Kings have the best young player on defense in the league.

by Irish Pat on Sep 24, 2009 2:41 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

No matter what I just want what’s best for the Kings

Eh – fucking – men, Pat!!!

2009-10 LA Kings Hockey: Where Smyt Happens!!

by DodgerBlueBalls on Sep 24, 2009 4:06 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

For the record, I voted Ersberg because Bernier needs to be getting #1 goalie minutes in the AHL while he develops. Plus Ersberg’s DirectTV commercial is just so damned funny!

2009-10 LA Kings Hockey: Where Smyt Happens!!

by DodgerBlueBalls on Sep 24, 2009 4:21 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

fucking – men

This should get us a few internet search hits. :)

http://www.battleofcali.com/

by Earl Sleek on Sep 24, 2009 4:28 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hopefully they both blossom and we can use one for premier players/draft picks. Therefore, we should keep Bernier up and hopefully showcase him to be packaged at the deadline to Altanta for one Ilya Kovalchuk. A guy can dream (although they do need a goalie).

by Nut on Sep 24, 2009 4:15 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Careful dreaming too much about goalie trade returns — remember, there’s only 30 nets that need filling, and many teams already have two capable players or more.

Kings will probably get more than the return for Bryzgalov, but I don’t know when’s the last time there’s been much useful traded for a goaltender. Especially a spare one.

http://www.battleofcali.com/

by Earl Sleek on Sep 24, 2009 4:31 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I know its a pipe dream. Still, Bernier, if he continues to develop this year, will be closer to Toskala when he went to Toronto with Bell (1st, two 2nd rounders) I would think. Also, he’s a young goalie who could become great while Bryzgalov (who is still very good and deserved better than waiver wire) had pretty much reached his peak when he left. Atlanta is not very deep in goal with Legace and Hedberg both over 35 and Lehtonen always injured. Regardless, I doubt Bernier alone would be enough for Kovi though, even as a rental. Just dreamin’.

by Nut on Sep 24, 2009 5:23 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I mean the return for Toskala, not that he’ll play like Toskala.

by Nut on Sep 24, 2009 5:37 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

That was several years ago — I think the landscape has changed a bunch since then.

Back then, you could drop a Fedorov contract for spare parts — that window is gone, too.

http://www.battleofcali.com/

by Earl Sleek on Sep 24, 2009 9:37 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Actually the return would be around a 2nd and possibly a 3rd rounder, the Toskala deal only went that way because JFJ was the GM. And look at JFJ’s ingenious deals- McCabe gets paid the most on the Leafs, He trades the top goaltending prospect in the World for Raycroft (or the worst goalie on the face of the earth not named Dan Cloutier) and he trades his draft picks for 30 year old players. If Lombardi expects a return package like that, the 29 other GMs will laff at him. Except maybe Wadell, he’s pretty dumb

"DO NOT get stuck behind Kyle Wellwood in the buffet line. This isn't really etiquette, but it will prevent you from starving to death"- Down Goes Brown on Etiquette for Jason Spezza's wedding

by Space Weed on Sep 26, 2009 9:21 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

True, plus don’t forget, part of the Toskala package was the deadweight contract of Mark Bell (I think). The Sharks had to take on some luggage as well as the picks.

http://www.battleofcali.com/

by Earl Sleek on Sep 26, 2009 9:33 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

To be fair, he said he was just dreaming many, many times. The idea that Bernier could come up, play really well in a few games and then be flipped for something the Kings could use isn’t crazy. The idea that he’s going to get a 1st rounder or anything like that, is.

The West Coast is the Best Coast.

by RudyKelly on Sep 26, 2009 9:38 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh wait, Bell went the other way, huh?

Stupid facts.

http://www.battleofcali.com/

by Earl Sleek on Sep 26, 2009 9:41 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I say play Bernier. Both he and Quick should have a higher ceiling than Ersberg, and the important thing is, neither Bernier nor Quick have proven that they can consistently play at a high level. I don’t know what the contract situations are looking like, but being that those are your top two contending for a single position, I’d try to split them roughly equal this year and let them duke it out for the position of LA Kings franchise goalie. Be honest, tell them its a battle, and let the best goalie win. Given that its not like Quick is a proven high level NHL goalie yet, I don’t see why you wouldn’t go this route. It gives you the best chance to see what you have in each of them.

http://sacrificethebody.blogspot.com/
Sacrifice the Body - Examining the NHL through statistical analysis, reasoned thought, and blind conjecture.

by IAmJoe on Sep 24, 2009 8:12 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

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