Maple Swap: Thank you, Poppa Burke!
Item: Former Duck J.S. Giguere gets traded to Toronto for former King Jason Blake and former Shark Vesa Toskala -- a BoC memorial trade of sorts. See also: Anaheim Calling, Pension Plan Puppets.
For reference, here's what I said a couple of weeks ago for a Blackhawks Q&A:
How does this Giguere-Hiller problem get solved?
I don't think it does -- nobody's sucker enough to take J.S. Giguere's contract off our books (well, I haven't entirely given up on Brian Burke yet).
Well look at me, Mr. Smarty-Pants. I'm going to offer a quick look at why I love this deal in today's rushed post, and have some more thorough thoughts for tomorrow's gameday. Read on, if you care dare.
J.S. Giguere has had a tremendous career in Anaheim, but he was going to be a huge monetary problem next season for the Ducks -- $7 million that was going to be spent essentially on the bench. Here's the salary cap list for 2010-11 that I made a few posts ago (all numbers courtesy of CapGeek) -- the "Before" picture:
Now here's the "After" picture, including the Hiller extension and Giguere trade:
As I noted in that previous cap-discussion post, for Anaheim the "Cash" figure matters much more than the "Cap" figure, and you can see how that's worked out fantastically -- for only an additional half-million dollars in cash, the Ducks now have a much better goalie in net, an additional scoring forward, and virtually no money being wasted on the bench (we shall see if Toskala gets any offer next summer from Anaheim; I'm in favor of trying out some Timo Pielmeier myself).
And I don't even care that Jason Blake is overpaid (if that even proves true) -- he's got two more years on a deal that has an annual cap hit of $4M but in cash costs only $3M/yr. In my mind, it's way better to spend money (even on overpayments) on the ice than watching it sit on the bench; an additional J-Blake improves next year's team much more than an idle Giguere.
And I don't even care that Vesa Toskala may be awful -- all he has to do is occupy Giguere's seat on the bench, I think -- any actual performance out of the guy this season is pure bonus in my mind.
Bottom line: It's early, but I like this deal a lot for the Ducks; in fact, I liked it in the incorrect version I heard earlier in the day, where the Ducks also threw in a first-round draft pick -- I think that'd be a stomachable price to unload the hefty next-year-salary of J.S. Giguere. Now instead of spending $7M off the ice, the Ducks get to spend $7.5M on the ice, and I think on paper it makes for a much better starting point for 2010-11.
Now the summer priorities seem to be: Bobby Ryan needs his raise, Wisniewski and Chipchura need to get penciled in, Selanne-Koivu-Niedermayer need to make up their minds, and I think the Ducks still might find a little money to spend -- should be a fairly exciting summer.
Good job, Barstool Bob -- way to get out of that $11.5M goalie overcommitment for next season. And good job, Brian Burke -- when you departed Anaheim, I had a list of three criticisms about your Anaheim GM legacy -- and today, you're down to only two! If only there were some way you could have somehow also traded for the Bertuzzi buyout payments too... :)
More Giguere trade thoughts coming tomorrow. Go Ducks.
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86 comments
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Comments
Kevin & Bean are going to be crushed.
The West Coast is the Best Coast.
by RudyKelly on Jan 31, 2010 12:53 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I’ve never heard them talk about the Ducks. But I find morning radio shows annoying.
Ohh! You guys!
by brokenyard on Jan 31, 2010 1:19 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Giggy often appeared on their show to discuss the Ducks
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
by Evilducks on Jan 31, 2010 6:51 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Damn, listened to them every morning for years back in high school and before (stopping about 3 years ago) and I never heard anything like that, but I probably only heard the first hour at most.
Ohh! You guys!
by brokenyard on Jan 31, 2010 10:43 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I know he had a regular tradition/superstition of going on before every playoff round.
GO DUCKS!!!
DUCKSandPUCKS.com
SKeleven on Twitter
by SK eleven on Feb 1, 2010 9:21 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I thought the same thing too…Though maybe the Ducks can trade for Pensblog Charlie so he and Psycho Mike can finally be together…
by yeah_eric on Jan 31, 2010 1:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Jason Blake is a waste, but I guess the Ducks had to take a little bit of crap to get rid of Giguere. Still, with something like $8 million in cap hits wrapped up in Whitney and Blake, Anaheim’s starting to pile up some empty cap calories. I guess every team in the league has its bad contracts though, right?
When I'm not battling in California:
Cycle Like The Sedins
by jamestobrien on Jan 31, 2010 1:01 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, if cap hits really is your currency. For Anaheim’s purposes, though — J. Blake is a $3M/yr player. I don’t anticipate us being near the cap ceiling again like Burke-days.
And I’d rather take J-Blake than give up a first-rounder. But yeah, unloading Giguere does have its price — that was always going to be true.
http://www.battleofcali.com/
by Earl Sleek on Jan 31, 2010 1:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Wisniewski and Chipchura need to get penciled in
I love the move, but are you seriously suggesting that we resign Wiz?
by yankeeken on Jan 31, 2010 1:06 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Certainly depends on asking price, but generally I’m not dead-set against re-signing any RFAs like you seem to be for Wiz.
Compared to the guys who actually are signed to contracts, Wisniewski is an All-Star.
http://www.battleofcali.com/
by Earl Sleek on Jan 31, 2010 1:11 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Compared to the guys who actually are signed to contracts, Wisniewski is an All-Star.
On the blueline, that is.
http://www.battleofcali.com/
by Earl Sleek on Jan 31, 2010 1:11 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Almost any defensman could look like an All-Star when compared to our defensmen.
by yankeeken on Jan 31, 2010 1:16 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
So I guess when that happens, it’s time to ship them out of town?
Shrug, he’s no Pronger, but he’s worth re-signing, I think. We’re a better team with him than without him.
http://www.battleofcali.com/
by Earl Sleek on Jan 31, 2010 1:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I have nothing against signing RFA, in fact I think signing Chipchura would be a good move. I just find it hard to overlook Wiz’s daily defensive blunders and justify bringing him back.
by yankeeken on Jan 31, 2010 1:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
What’s the matter? Not falling for his shootout heroics?
If Wisniewski got traded for something, I’d be fine with it. Until then, I think it’s reasonable to re-sign the guy.
http://www.battleofcali.com/
by Earl Sleek on Jan 31, 2010 1:19 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I’d rather bring Brookbank back, then Wiz.
by yankeeken on Jan 31, 2010 1:24 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Again, depends on price — tough to make these decisions without the most important factor.
http://www.battleofcali.com/
by Earl Sleek on Jan 31, 2010 1:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
give us the number, Sleek
Murray said he only set aside “under 3M” for Beauchemin, and he apparently gave all of that money to Wiz. Is Wiz worth it at the full 2.99M/yr. for three years?
by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Jan 31, 2010 4:06 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I’d sign him at that. It seems reasonable enough.
http://www.battleofcali.com/
by Earl Sleek on Jan 31, 2010 4:11 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
hmm. I know we suck now so we have to pay our players a little more and I know Wisniewski has a lot of offense and a little experience, but if a 26 year old Francois Beauchemin is only worth 1.65M a year, I can’t justify pumping 3M into Wisniewski.
by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Jan 31, 2010 5:08 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t know how fair that comparison is. Frenchie got a $1.65M deal after having played only 73 NHL games, plus 16 in the playoffs. And that was coming off a season where the salary cap maximum was at $39M.
Wisniewski has played 235 NHL games already plus the dozen we played in last spring, and the current salary cap max is at $56.8M. I think he’s right to expect more than whatever Beauchemin signed for back in August 2006.
http://www.battleofcali.com/
by Earl Sleek on Jan 31, 2010 5:19 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, and the only reason I know he signed it in August 06? Thanks for sticking around, blogspot site.
http://www.battleofcali.com/
by Earl Sleek on Jan 31, 2010 5:29 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah but
Beauchemin put in a lot of time and proved he could stay healthy over long seasons in the AHL. And when we asked him to up his conditioning, he answered the bell. Wisniewski admitted his goal for this year was to stay healthy. I know no player can really guarantee his health, especially one with some fragile joints, but he does continue to block shots in a system where the coach prefers you don’t. He hasn’t fought or really pushed the hitting since his shoulder injury, but he was limping around there for a while. I mean, in terms of what may have been discussed to get him the one year 2.75M, I don’t know if he’s doing what they asked.
On the difference in salary, point well taken, though I think they were pretty shady with the contracts back then. Tavares signed a 3.75M a year and while Johnson was sub 1M, his incentives brought him to the 3M. And if Beauch was signed at 4% of the total cap, that would still put an equivalent today of 2.25M, right? So on strict cap inflation, 3M is still overdoing it.
by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Jan 31, 2010 5:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I still think the NHL games-played is an important distinction. If I’m a salary arbiter, it holds much more stock than a guy’s AHL durability. So even percentage-wise, I think the Wizard has a strong case to make more than Beauch did at the time of signing.
http://www.battleofcali.com/
by Earl Sleek on Jan 31, 2010 9:54 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
games played
usually means you have valuable experience or you’ve proven you can handle the long season. Wisniewski isn’t all that smart, so the experience doesn’t show. And he hasn’t proven he can handle the long season. The guy is repeatedly injured, and in different parts of his body. I can’t give him the veteran status, certainly not as a Top 4 defenseman. Veteran bottom pair player, maybe, but that’s not the pay he wants.
by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Feb 1, 2010 12:54 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
But these aren’t arguments that fly well in arbitration, I wouldn’t think — Wisniewski can point to specific stretches where he was an effective top-four defenseman for the Ducks, no matter how much you want to protest that he wasn’t or isn’t.
We have yet to play Wiz like a veteran bottom pair player — it seems way unfair to start painting him as such just at negotiation time.
http://www.battleofcali.com/
by Earl Sleek on Feb 1, 2010 6:57 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
bottom line..we stick with whiz till we get somthing better…outside of scotty not much there…its unfortunate we have to settle for whiz and his brainfarts (and his unlucky foot that direct goals into our own net)…im hoping barstool has another trade up his sleeve for a veteran D man…I agree with earl…perfect scenario would be whiz as a number 4 or 5 D man…but that would take a lot of trading yikes!!!
I usually end up doing somthing stupid...count on it
LONG LIVE BOC (and from the rink)!!
GO DUCKS!!!
by SPADE-IN-VICTORHELL on Feb 1, 2010 7:14 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
well, as to his Top 4 abilities, he’s played well with Scott Niedermayer, but at arbitration we could point to the fact that Brett Festerling played well with Scott Niedermayer for a similar stretch. You don’t apply for Top 4 play by virtue of that. His type with Whitney was not as successful, but not many Ducks were successful during that time. In Chicago, he finished his time as a third pairing power play specialist, and even then, Keith and Seabrook outperformed him on the man advantage. That was the top of his potential in their system, and he can’t really argue that a legit 3M player like a Seabrook or a Barker instead of a Boynton or a Festerling would make him a third pairing guy in our system. And his injuries most definitely count against him come arbitration. His veteran experience consists of constant injuries, in-game, out of game, during fights. He’s a 3-million dollar man if we’re talking reconstruction costs.
by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Feb 1, 2010 8:08 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
those typos are horrible because they created real words
“Top 4 pay by virtue of that. His time with Whitney”
by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Feb 1, 2010 8:10 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Sure, and if the arbiter weren’t allowed to listen to counterarguments, that might fly.
Listen — I’m not exactly sure what the price tag’s going to be, and it might get affected by whatever they announce the new cap number to be. I just know that d-men have gone for higher than expected in the past, and I wouldn’t call it a failing by Barstool Bob if it happened again.
Whatever market dictates, I’m comfortable enough signing Wiz to it — he’s not a guy who’s disappointed to the point where I need him out of a Ducks uniform ASAP.
http://www.battleofcali.com/
by Earl Sleek on Feb 1, 2010 8:16 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
oh. I thought you were asking me to explain my price here and why I thought 4% of the salary cap was a good enough offer and wasn’t comfortable with 3M? I didn’t mean to imply it was silly to think he could get paid 3M or that Murray would be an idiot to pay him a dime more. I mean, just on the strength of Wisniewski signing with a bad team, he can ask for a little more money. Arbitration gets pretty ugly in the NHL, and Wisniewski is particularly susceptible with his injuries and his playing style, but flashy guys always get more than market value and Wisniewski is a fan favorite everywhere he goes. I was just saying I wasn’t comfortable putting him at a value higher than a Frenchie; I imagine every Ducks fan disagrees
by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Feb 1, 2010 8:39 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, but the Frenchie number is artificially low, I think. He signed it a year early and without much NHL experience.
If we could sucker Wiz into that, sure, I’m on board, but I wouldn’t hold my breath on it. That’d be generous on his part.
http://www.battleofcali.com/
by Earl Sleek on Feb 1, 2010 8:51 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
well, i mean
i’ll just point to explaining myself above. 4% is plausible for Wiz for the reasons I already stated, and it was good enough for solid players like Zanon, and might be good enough for Hamhuis and Michalek this offseason. The basic arguments against are just fan favorite, playing on a bad team and offensive upside, but I don’t think his skillset automatically comes in ahead of a Zanon, a Hamhuis or a Michalek. So, again I’m not comfortable with it, but I’m sure every Ducks fan is willing to give him 6M or whatever percentage we inflated Parros’ contract.
by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Feb 1, 2010 10:33 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
give him 6M or whatever percentage we inflated Parros’ contract.
Last week I was telling my wife the Ducks might dump salary this deadline and Teemu, Scott and Koivu might go, she said “oh no, Parros too?”
I said, no Parros is safe, no team will pay that guy what we pay him to do what he does. He is safer than Getzlaf.
by Mike in OC on Feb 1, 2010 1:36 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
oh and I don’t know if the inflation affects the bottom feeders as heavily. As I recall the post lockout minimum started at 450K, so every ~500K is still an NHL player today as it was back then.
by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Jan 31, 2010 5:41 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, neither guy was league-minimum — at least not at the contract levels we are talking about. I do think that there has been some inflation of the “middle class” of hockey in the past four years, though — it’s not all going into Malkin’s pocket.
http://www.battleofcali.com/
by Earl Sleek on Jan 31, 2010 9:56 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, but if the first contract guys can still be 800k, the second contract guys can still be 1.6M. I mean, there are guys of Wisniewski’s experience making 2M right now, so it’s not like it’s out of the question for him to take 4% of the total salary cap.
by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Feb 1, 2010 12:57 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
And I fail to see why it’s out of the question that he makes $3M next season — I don’t imagine I’d have to search too hard to find comparables in that ballpark either.
We’ll see — I think he’ll go a bit higher than you’d probably like — defensemen contracts tend that direction, and if it goes to an arbiter he’ll look at recent contracts signed and put Wiz somewhere in line with those.
http://www.battleofcali.com/
by Earl Sleek on Feb 1, 2010 7:01 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
well, offense is always a plus, even if you give up chances in your own end to get it, but I say the injuries count against him. When Daniel and I did informal arbitration, I pegged him as a Greg Zanon who was a 1.93M player at free agency last year. But Go Ducks’ assessment in the anaheim calling thread of 2M players like Hamhuis and Michalek are also great market value comparisons for this offseason. I suppose flashy guys can go for higher, but the affordable alternative does exist. And I doubt Murray threatened arbitration only to give him exactly what he wanted, so Wiz either wants long term or much more than 2.75M.
by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Feb 1, 2010 8:15 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Wisniewski: “Ahem… about those last couple wins… you’re welcome.”
Ohh! You guys!
by brokenyard on Jan 31, 2010 1:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Murray: About giving you a 2.75M contract instead of taking you to arbitration after you tore your ACL twice (once, literally, you tore your own ACL), tore your MCL once and put your horrible decision making on display in Chicago, YOU’RE welcome.
by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Jan 31, 2010 5:53 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Not that I’m an out and out Wiz hater, just a Wiz realist. I’ve always agreed with the Second City Hockey breakdown, and I still think he’s a 5-6 d-man.
For me, you have to separate the idea of James Wisniewski from the reality. The Idea of Wiz is he’s a head-banging, forward crashing nutcase who can join the rush with a big shot and is a tough guy. The reality is that Wiz is a smallish d-man, who’s had multiple knee operations, who does have a big shot but takes forever to get it off and isn’t all that accurate when he does, who’s been way less physical this year and hasn’t fought once. He was playing on the 3rd pair and had a tendency to be a fire drill in his own end. So you essenitally gave up a 5-6 d-man. I love the guy, but I’m not going to be writing heartbroken songs with sing-along choruses at his departure . . . Yes, he was a personality, and easy to root for and love, but as for what was on the ice, I’m sorry, it just wasn’t that much.
by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Jan 31, 2010 6:06 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Sure, I didn’t mean to make anyone out as an ouright Wiz hater, but he has shown he can be a useful top-four guy; ask last spring’s Sharks.
Is he ideal? Maybe not, but he’s not high on my list of things that went bad this season; I’m comfortable retaining the guy at market cost, whether there’s a Niedermayer playing next fall in Anaheim or not.
http://www.battleofcali.com/
by Earl Sleek on Jan 31, 2010 6:21 PM PST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
I think part of the reason that both Leafs fans and Ducks fans (well, at least me) like this deal is that we each come from a different CBA perspective.
A Leafs fan looks at next year’s cap hits for Jason Blake and J.S. Giguere and sees only a $2M difference — not too much extra to take on.
A Ducks fan instead looks at next year’s salaries due Jason Blake and J.S. Giguere and see a $4M difference — that’s some serious savings, not to mention the fact that J. Blake won’t be benched behind Hiller.
Ah, good ol’ complicated-averaged-salary CBA — you make it so fun.
http://www.battleofcali.com/
by Earl Sleek on Jan 31, 2010 1:38 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Oh, but it would be so great
if they would make Blake sit in Giguere’s chair anyway, with a baseball hat on.
Wait till this year.
by Quisp on Jan 31, 2010 1:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Conversation at PPP
Tomas-a-thon: NHL10 would never allow this deal to go through
JaredFromLondon: i just tried the giiggy for toskala and blake trade and the game laughed at me
Ohh! You guys!
by brokenyard on Jan 31, 2010 1:44 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Leafs fan here
and you’re exactly right about both sides being ecstatic about this deal due to the different needs.
It’s interesting to look at it from the perspective of cash – in super-hockey-rich Toronto, dollars barely even get looked at, only cap matters – and unloading Jason Blake’s hell-contract made me smile from ear-to-ear. He (and Mayers for that matter) were both considered untradable, as I imagine Giguere’s was as well.
Oh and taking Toskala from us was a solid. For us, all Jiggy needs to do is be slightly better than the NHL’s worst goaltender and this trade is considered a huge victory. Would have loved a pick back – but along with the Phaneuf trade it’s been a pretty good day.
Leafs Nation: A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jan 31, 2010 6:10 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks for chiming in — I totally see the logic from the Leafs’ side, so I don’t want to over-paint Burke as a “sucker” or anything. But he definitely did us a solid today.
http://www.battleofcali.com/
by Earl Sleek on Jan 31, 2010 8:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Isn’t it nice when trades are win-win?
Leafs Nation: A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Feb 1, 2010 5:41 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Does this mean Elisha Cuthbert is Toronto’s Mike V?
Ohh! You guys!
by brokenyard on Jan 31, 2010 11:06 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Weirdest shit on NHL.com
Semin a Panther?
Alex Ovechkin’s dad thinks he is
…?
Ohh! You guys!
by brokenyard on Jan 31, 2010 2:02 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I saw that headline over at Japers’ Rink. You see, what’s confusing is that legitimate SBN blogs (everyone except BoC) gets promoted by front page NHL.com exposure.
We don’t get those perks; we’re too hardcore or something. But I suspect that’s how it happened.
http://www.battleofcali.com/
by Earl Sleek on Jan 31, 2010 2:07 PM PST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Hm, never mind that — I went back to Japers’ and found this post — oddly similar.
Semin is a Panther! Says Ovechkin’s Dad
Unfortunately, when it comes to eastern conference pieces, I don’t often read past the headline.
http://www.battleofcali.com/
by Earl Sleek on Jan 31, 2010 2:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
This trade makes me wonder if Burke is still being paid by the Ducks.
I don’t think Blake is a great player, but I agree 100%, Earl. Better than spending the money on the doorman. And you know what? From what I hear, Blake works hard, he hustles, he tries to make plays. The biggest criticism is that he is overpaid. If he made $2 million instead of 4, would this be a coup for the Ducks? And since the Ducks aren’t max-cap spenders, doesn’t this make it a coup for the Ducks anyways?
Goddamit, even in a year the Sharks destroy the Ducks, the Ducks go and do something to ruin it…
by ruben398 on Jan 31, 2010 2:15 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
This trade makes me wonder if Burke is still being paid by the Ducks.
To be fair, I’ve read some Maple Leafs perspective and I can see some rationale as to why they feel like winners (you probably have to start with their assumption that both players they gave up are worse than garbage). Burke still acted for the Maple Leafs, but definitely from the BoC perspective he gave us an Obama-sized bailout for next season.
I don’t even know how I can think of Jason Blake as overpaid. In my mind, he’s making negative-$4M next year. :)
http://www.battleofcali.com/
by Earl Sleek on Jan 31, 2010 2:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Don’t you guys already have a >$4 million dollar winger that sucks?
The West Coast is the Best Coast.
by RudyKelly on Jan 31, 2010 2:29 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Shrug — I’m not closing the book on Lupul’s possibilities. He still scored 10 goals in 23 games, none on the power play.
And even if I bit on that, it’s still only one — we’ll only be paying “Shake-N-Blake” (stealing that nickname from PPP comments) $3M/yr going forward.
http://www.battleofcali.com/
by Earl Sleek on Jan 31, 2010 2:35 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Blake had cancer, not Parkinson’s, so that nickname makes no sense.
The West Coast is the Best Coast.
by RudyKelly on Jan 31, 2010 3:01 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, just trying it on, probably won’t stick. Honestly, all I remember calling Blake from his Kings days was “that rat”.
http://www.battleofcali.com/
by Earl Sleek on Jan 31, 2010 3:06 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
He kind of looks like a puppy right when it’s born.
The West Coast is the Best Coast.
by RudyKelly on Jan 31, 2010 3:10 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
A quick internet image search yielded this beauty, from Islanders Army.

The comparative text is excellent.
http://www.battleofcali.com/
by Earl Sleek on Jan 31, 2010 3:16 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
hahahahahahahaha!!
Official Ambassador for Nucks Misconduct.
"If Chuck Norris was up against 7 Rangers, he'd call Ryan Kesler."
GO CANUCKS GO!
by missy on Jan 31, 2010 5:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Cute overload!
I prefer my Kool-Aid spiked
by Niesy on Jan 31, 2010 5:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
great call
I usually end up doing somthing stupid...count on it
LONG LIVE BOC (and from the rink)!!
GO DUCKS!!!
by SPADE-IN-VICTORHELL on Feb 1, 2010 7:20 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
He also kind of looks like an albino hamster so we called him that too
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
by PPP on Jan 31, 2010 8:40 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Way to call the Burkie connection! I can’t believe someone took that salary — I understand the relief. Maybe he’s keeping his bridges unburnt for a reason. :)
I prefer my Kool-Aid spiked
by Niesy on Jan 31, 2010 5:20 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I’m less enthusiastic about the deal than you are, Earl. I disagree that the “cash hit” is more important than the “cap hit” and there’s really no evidence that the talk of “not approaching the cap ceiling” is anything more than just talk. The team has always spent what was necessary.
I actually wonder if we wouldn’t have been better off just buying out Jiggy at the end of this year. That would have amounted to a meager $1.333 million cap hit next year and a $2.333 million cap hit in 2011-12 instead of paying Blake (in cap dollars) more than twice that over the same period. If Blake were on the market at the end of this year, would you pay him $2 million per for two years? I wouldn’t. Would you be able to find a better (and especially younger) forward at that price? I think you could.
by Snap Wilson on Jan 31, 2010 10:59 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
thats not how todays nhl works man…….its all about dollars.
how would we be better off buying out giguere…….paying him to play elsewhere? come on……we saved 4 million dollars…..
by Go Ducks on Jan 31, 2010 11:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The team has always spent what was necessary.
Well, for one stretch of months it was a salary cap ceiling team, but I don’t anticipate that happening again in the next couple of years. I know what the face value of my Row B seats are, and I know that empty seats exist still — if the Ducks spend to the ceiling in the next two years, I don’t even know if Jason Blake will be a problem — that’s tons of money to improve the roster.
Until then, though, I can’t imagine why Anaheim wouldn’t care more about actual dollars — they will be paying that amount, not some mythical averaged-value whatever.
And I hate the notion that we’re talking about buyouts for anybody — that should be reserved for only the richest of teams in the direst of situations. If you think I hated the money we were paying Giguere to sit on the bench, you have no idea how much I hated the money we were paying Bertuzzi to play for some other team — still makes me fume at Burke.
If Blake were on the market at the end of this year, would you pay him $2 million per for two years? I wouldn’t.
That’s irrelevant — if Giguere were on the market, I wouldn’t drop $7M on him either.
http://www.battleofcali.com/
by Earl Sleek on Jan 31, 2010 11:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Also, I’ve made a general decision. I’m going to stop running with the assumption that Jason Blake is bad or useless for the Ducks until I see him play a few games in an Anaheim uniform. Then we can better have this whole discussion.
http://www.battleofcali.com/
by Earl Sleek on Jan 31, 2010 11:24 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
good trade for sure, blake scored 56 pts last year, dude just needs good linemates…we have them..
we kept the firsts, so we can still add a top 4 d, with loops back in a month
by Go Ducks on Jan 31, 2010 11:13 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
if the Ducks spend to the ceiling in the next two years, I don’t even know if Jason Blake will be a problem — that’s tons of money to improve the roster.
On a roster that needs tons of improvement. Look at the forwards past Getzlaf and Perry. Does that look like the makings of a good team? Look at the D past Whitney. I think we’re talking another $5 million spent on Ryan, so we’re at $40 million on the cap and still no second line center and only one top four defenseman. Assuming the team intends to be competitive, how close are we to the ceiling now?
That’s irrelevant — if Giguere were on the market, I wouldn’t drop $7M on him either.
It’s not irrelevant because if Jiggy gets bought out, we’re not dropping that amount of money on him.
by Snap Wilson on Feb 1, 2010 12:07 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
What do you mean “intends to” “be” “competitive”?
Ohh! You guys!
by brokenyard on Feb 1, 2010 2:46 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Salary ceiling hasn’t been set, but yes — I do imagine that there will still be roster changes before next season, especially on defense. I don’t imagine that the Ducks will spend to whatever ceiling is set at any point this summer, no matter how much we whine about it. And I don’t know that our forwards are that far off from the set that upset a Presidents’ Trophy winner last spring — that somehow resembled a good team. Definitely the blueline needs work, though.
It took two convincing semi-retirements to spend to the ceiling in the past (and those were horrible months); you think the impetus is there for the Ducks to do it again?
It’s not irrelevant because if Jiggy gets bought out, we’re not dropping that amount of money on him.
No, we’re dropping $4M or so on him over the next two years to play cheaply on some other team — it’s worse than throwing money into thin air, because thin air can’t come back to beat you.
So your question becomes, is it better to save $2M over the next two years on Giguere’s last year, or better to save $2M (I’ll pretend your cap numbers matter) plus get a free Jason Blake? J-Blake would have to be pretty fucking terrible (and see my note above; I’m not believing that yet) for me not to take the free option.
http://www.battleofcali.com/
by Earl Sleek on Feb 1, 2010 7:12 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
yea gotta hold off on branding blake as a bust yet..until he shows us….theres plenty of stories of guys doing well with changes of scenery (more stories of the opposite..but)…
lets hope for a steve thomas…selanne…gulp koivu(hes been better) kinda story…than a federov story…
p.s.
love u jiggy..hope u resurect your career in toronto…glad hes closer to home (old home) and back with his goaltending coach…that guy deserves our best wishes!!
p.s.s.
ghost faced hilla…your the man now…go on a tear!!!
I usually end up doing somthing stupid...count on it
LONG LIVE BOC (and from the rink)!!
GO DUCKS!!!
by SPADE-IN-VICTORHELL on Feb 1, 2010 7:19 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
On a roster that needs tons of improvement. Look at the forwards past Getzlaf and Perry.
The roster doesnt need a ton of improvement, we have a shitload of prospects coming.
what we know
sexton and beleskey=good chance at being quality top 6ers
Bonino=arguably the best forward in college hockey
chipchura, bodie, brown…..all showing signs of being excellent bottom 6 forwards
when carter plays=good 4th line center
DEFENSE is what needs a ton of improvement, we’re going to sign hamhuis or michalek, noquestion unless we trade……..add Sbisa who will be bigger and stronger and prolly nieds in a reduced role(he plays way to many mins) and it will be alot better
we’re not in bad shape AT ALL
by Go Ducks on Feb 1, 2010 11:41 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
No, we’re dropping $4M or so on him over the next two years to play cheaply on some other team — it’s worse than throwing money into thin air, because thin air can’t come back to beat you.
Earl, this is what economists refer to as the sunk cost bias. The ship has sailed on that $4 million one way or another, and if we were worried about Jiggy beating anyone, the team wouldn’t be trading him.
Buying Jiggy out as opposed to trading him for Jason Blake saves the team $1 million (in real dollars) per year over the next two and a whopping $4.333 million in cap space over the same period.
So your question becomes, is it better to save $2M over the next two years on Giguere’s last year, or better to save $2M (I’ll pretend your cap numbers matter) plus get a free Jason Blake?
Jason Blake isn’t free, that’s the point. He costs the team $6 million in real money and $8 million in cap dollars over the next two years. That ain’t free. And that means he has to be good enough to justify the $2 million (in real money) and $4.333 million difference in cap dollars that we could have had if we had simply bought out Jiggy.
And even if you don’t want to automatically assume he’ll be lousy, you at least have to consider the odds. He’s scored 50 goals in 216 games over the past three years (almost 19 goals per 82). He’ll be 37 and 38 in those two years, so is that production more likely to go up or down? Ask any Leafs fan about Blake’s effort (or lack thereof). I don’t think he’s the kind of player we would have wanted on our team at that money the past three years, let alone the next two.
by Snap Wilson on Feb 1, 2010 7:52 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
I guess I’m getting a little lost — the money we’re paying Blake won’t be measured on the sunk cost we had paying Giguere? Our future expenses are less than they were two days ago in real money (Blake will make $6M over two years, Giggy would have made $7 over one), and that has to matter.
Yes, Blake’s not a guy we’d sign to that contract on the open market — no need to belabor that point. He’s a necessary swap of problems, but it’s better to have our problem devoted to the on-ice team than to watch it make sure the bench door stays closed.
The main problem with buyouts, as I see it, is they are awfully short-sighted. You may have made next year look a little brighter, but you’ve done it at the cost of competing as well the year afterwards. I’d rather not cloud that future hope if I can avoid it.
http://www.battleofcali.com/
by Earl Sleek on Feb 1, 2010 8:07 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I guess I’m getting a little lost — the money we’re paying Blake won’t be measured on the sunk cost we had paying Giguere? Our future expenses are less than they were two days ago in real money (Blake will make $6M over two years, Giggy would have made $7 over one), and that has to matter.
I’m not debating the decision between keeping Jiggy vs. keeping Blake. They clearly couldn’t keep Jiggy at his salary. I’m debating the choice between trading Jiggy for Blake vs. just buying Jiggy out. That’s the difference where Blake costs us more money and significantly more cap space under that scenario.
by Snap Wilson on Feb 2, 2010 11:11 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, I’m not going to exactly check the buyout math — correct it if it’s wrong, but I don’t see any huge cash savings through buyout, at least.
Giguere is owed $7M next season — to buy him out would cost us 2/3 that over two seasons, I believe — $4.67M. Add to that the cost of a minimum-wage forward for two seasons — another million, and that brings us to $5.67M over the next two seasons. Jason Blake’s salary on its own costs $6M over the next two seasons.
So the difference I’m seeing, cash-wise, is $0.33M — and that’s measured against the cheapest replacement in the league. Again, correct the math if I’ve done it wrong — I’d like to see how much money you think the buyout “saves” Anaheim.
http://www.battleofcali.com/
by Earl Sleek on Feb 3, 2010 6:45 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
No, you’re right on the actual money. I didn’t add the additional forward. As I said at the outset, I’m more interested in the cap difference, which is huge for next year, minimum wage forward notwithstanding. $2.67 million is one of our much-needed defensemen right there.
by Snap Wilson on Feb 4, 2010 10:56 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You know, I can’t help not feeling sorry for Jiggy during this whole thing. The guy makes 7 million dollars a year. I would sit on any fucking bench you wanted me to every day for a year for 7 million dollars. Shit, I would give Joe Thornton an erotic massage (no happy ending) after every game a season for 7 million dollars. I would even wear a “Marleau” jersey, because that’s probably what’s he’s in to.
I mean, ultimately, it was up to Giguere anyway. He could have kicked his no trade in to effect. Hopefully a change of scenery will do him some good. Better for him to start for Toronto, then sit on the bench in Anaheim.
I will miss the guy though. Aside from the last two season, he’s been a solid goalie for us for a long time. Hope Toronto treats him well and the best of luck to him.
As for Blake, he seems kind of shakey. But, he’s put up decent numbers here and there. Hopefully he works out for us.
I thought this was a really well written post Earl and I’m really enjoying the comments from everyone. I personally, like this trade not just for it’s monetary value, but because it’s an opportunity for Jiggy to start again. People on the other side of this discussion bring up some valid points. Hopefully Giguere works out in Toronto and Blake and Toskala work out in Anaheim.
by JohnQPhats on Feb 1, 2010 8:38 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Joe Thornton an erotic massage (no happy ending)
you cant play with someones emotions like that man
They do call him "jumbo joe"? maybe u should reconsider..u might be missing out
I usually end up doing somthing stupid...count on it
LONG LIVE BOC (and from the rink)!!
GO DUCKS!!!
by SPADE-IN-VICTORHELL on Feb 1, 2010 9:03 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
you cant play with someones emotions like that man
They do call him “jumbo joe”? maybe u should reconsider..u might be missing out
Depends on how big I suppose. If we’re talking like “practical joke big”, then there’s a possibility.
by JohnQPhats on Feb 1, 2010 9:15 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
also blake has played with crap this year……give him a chance with good players
by Go Ducks on Feb 1, 2010 11:42 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

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