Outside the Box: Why not go the distance with B-Ry?
And so the offseason of waiting continues. Waiting for Kovalchuk's UFA decision. Waiting for the NHL to reject that contract. Waiting for the NHLPA to file a grievance. Waiting for that grievance to be resolved by an arbiter. And once that saga is settled, waiting for the rest of the free agent dominoes to fall.
As for the Anaheim Ducks specifically, we have our own issues we're waiting on -- waiting for Teemu, waiting for B-Ry, waiting for Wisniewski, and hopefully waiting for some domino moves on the blueline beyond that. Now I'm a pretty patient dude these days -- I know there's no meaningful games scheduled until October -- but I still did want to write a crazy think-piece about the RFA negotiations with Bobby Ryan, as they seem to be going nowhere lately.
Now I should note that I'm a pretty bad blogger -- I haven't followed the back-and-forth between B-Ry and Barstool Bob very carefully, but as I understand it we're stuck in a dispute about contract years, not money. B-Ry seems comfortable enough with a $5M-or-so cap hit to keep him in the Getzlaf-Perry neighborhood, but the Ducks want to sign Bobby for five years, covering 2 potential years of UFA paydays; Bobby and his agent apparently want just a 3-year deal, letting him hit the UFA waters alongside Getzlaf and Perry.
Now probably we're at an impasse because both sides are considering one of the two options, and that's probably fine, but I wanted to throw a third crazy option out there: why not try to sign B-Ry to a lifetime contract? There might be a solution there that could meet both parties' needs.

How 'bout it, B-Ry? Wanna commit some of your old man years?
Now I know that there's a huge amount of risk in lifetime deals, and generally I'm opposed to them, but there's a few things to consider here:
1. The window for signing lifetime contracts is probably closing very soon. I think this loophole closes during the next CBA negotiation. You can probably get away with this sort of thing this summer and next, who knows beyond that?
2. There is risk in signing a lifetime deal for sure, but the Ducks wouldn't bear it alone -- plenty of prominent teams have already put themselves at risk with similar signings, and I doubt the NHL will burn all of them. The risk is mitigated because of teams like Detroit, New Jersey, Chicago, and Philadelphia -- I believe the league will allow an out from the awful years at the end of a contract.
3. Lifetime contracts should only be used for special players, and I think Bobby Ryan qualifies. Other than this contract holdout, there's really been very few question marks about the kid's mindset or his ability to play. He's young, talented, improving, and for-the-moment popular; he certainly is a decent candidate for a lifetime deal -- at least the best candidate we'll see negotiating contracts in the short term.
4. A lifetime contract for B-Ry (at least the way I'm imagining it) does not guarantee that B-Ry finishes the contract as a Duck. In fact, I think the contract can be structured so that it's probably unlikely that he does. I'll expand on that after the jump.
First off, here's an example of a possible contract I'd offer B-Ry. I don't know that the focus here should be on actual dollars or length -- those are quite negotiable, but I picked fifteen years, which carries B-Ry to age 37, and an averaged cap hit of $5.2 M. The individual years go something like this (in millions):
4, 4, 4, 5, 6, 7, 7, 9, 9, 7, 6, 4, 3, 2, 1
What does this accomplish? First off, for the Ducks, they know that they will have four years up front where the actual salary will be lower than the cap hit -- this is quite attractive to lower or middle spending teams like Anaheim, where cap hits are largely irrelevant but real dollars reign supreme. Then begins a stretch of seven years where his cash cost will exceed his cap hit -- this is much more attractive to rich cap-ceiling spending teams who are much more focused on average salary. I think this means that unless B-Ry proves himself to be incredibly valuable (or valueless), he likely gets traded after four years or so to a "Rich Dad" team. The structure of the deal enables the middle of B-Ry's contract to look attractive to big spenders in the marketplace, and rather than the Ducks losing Ryan for next-to-nothing in the UFA process, they may be able to pry some assets for Ryan's somewhat-cheap-cap-hit contract.
For Bobby Ryan, I think there's some charm to this deal also -- he gets some future security, and largely gets what he may be looking for in unrestricted free agency: a nice pay raise and a ticket out of Anaheim. He'll likely get to play his early 30s on a cap-spending team who likes his lowered cap hit -- theoretically it should enhance his chances of winning the cup. And if his game falters in his late 30s, he can retire without missing out on too much of the overall contract value.
Now of course there's tons of snags -- I can't truly say what either side really wants in the short or long term, so I'm conjecturing like crazy today, and it's possible either side is risk-averse enough that this sort of notion is ridiculous from the start. But with both sides seemingly stuck in negotiations on the 3 years vs. 5 years debate, perhaps a crazy outside-the-box third option can get both sides what they want, or at the very least get the player and team to start talking creatively.
What say you, Ducks and hockey fans? Is this sort of proposal crazy, or is there perhaps a workable solution here? I'm just throwing out some theories -- shoot them down or fix them up in the comments.
Go Ducks.
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Comments
sounds intriguting..never thought of it…the question really becomes of how much u think of ol bob-o
and if you belive he has the mindset to get better or sit on the long contract…cuz what happens if he below average when the 6 thru 9 mil kicks in(hed of course be showing signs)…we would be stuck
with us not in the lockerroom or at practices…i only go off RC and RC in the past has chastised poor bob-o….for not doing certain things…the same could be said about getzlaf…but hes not signed that long..and “hopefully” his lack of production has been in fact due to injuries…but thats another post u have yet to write
so…i dunno to me its wortht he risk…but i wonder what gorilla head thinks?
"When a man with a sing song voice tells me to fuck off, it always concerns me, boyo!"
-John Marston-
by SPADE-IN-VICTORHELL on Jul 28, 2010 9:28 AM PDT reply actions
…but thats another post u have yet to write
Oh, that’s an imposing list these days. I’ll file it right behind “Farewell, Mike Brown”. :)
…cuz what happens if he below average when the 6 thru 9 mil kicks in(hed of course be showing signs)…we would be stuck
Sure, the real risk is that B-Ry declines heavily before we have an opportunity to deal him to a rich team. So for sure you want to do this to a player who hopefully won’t go that route, and I think B-Ry may be the best candidate for that in a Ducks sweater.
The real number to beat is $5.2M — the teams we would be looking to deal him to will likely only be looking at that number. So if B-Ry falls too hard, we get fucked. But based on his current learning curve, I think it could be a decent gamble — I doubt B-Ry turns awful in the short term future.
"Ridin’ The Meat Train & Dreaming of Jack’s Johnson All Summer Long!"
http://www.battleofcali.com/
i only go off RC and RC in the past has chastised poor bob-o….for not doing certain things…the same could be said about getzlaf…
Heh, I should point out I once advocated a 15-year contract extension for Getzlaf, too. I’m all sorts of recurring crazy.
Also, it took me a couple of readings of your comment to realize you meant B-Ry by “bob-o”. First reading I thought you meant Barstool Bob. :)
"Ridin’ The Meat Train & Dreaming of Jack’s Johnson All Summer Long!"
http://www.battleofcali.com/
bobby is too long to write out..my little nickname for him..but i could see hwo it could be confusing..maybe ill call him rosy…cuz of his cheeks….which will be fine as long as we dont get kaberle
"When a man with a sing song voice tells me to fuck off, it always concerns me, boyo!"
-John Marston-
by SPADE-IN-VICTORHELL on Jul 28, 2010 10:01 AM PDT up reply actions
Getzy is the only guy I would even think about giving a lifetime deal to. It’s not just for special players – a category which I don’t think anyone could argue Bobby fits into – it’s for franchise players. The only franchise player we have (not including Teemu, I’d ink him for 50 years if I could lol) is Getzlaf.
I did once think Bobby could be another franchise player and we would be very lucky to have 2, ala Cindy Crosby and Malkin. After this last year I just don’t know, he’s going to have to step up in a big way for me to raise my ceiling for him again. To be clear I have no doubt he has the possiblity to be a perennial 40 goal scorer, but he disappeared a little too often this past season. Heck, the kid led our team in goals last season and I think he could have done better so that shows that I do think very highly of him, just not highly enough for a lifetime contract. Yet.
"You keep shooting. You hope it goes in, and you smile." -Teemu Selanne
Certainly it’s not a for-sure thing — I’m not even sure Getzlaf was. But the window’s closing on the opportunity, so it’d have to be a “based on what we’ve seen” and not a “based on what we will see” move. And I guess I’m not really that down about his year last season — sophomore slumps are common enough and the team was a pretty big mess all around — even Getzlaf looked like a chump for long stretches.
I’m not sure that I buy that this has to be done for a franchise player exclusively, though — I think it makes sense if the player will be useful throughout the foreseeable future. I don’t really consider Johan Franzen the franchise player for Detroit, for example, but it’s still a good contract for them.
Let’s not mistake this, though — my plan has very little to do with seeing Bobby finish his career in Anaheim. If anything, my plan has a scheduled time when he’s booted out, so this is more about settling a contract dispute than calling him a Duck 4 Life. I didn’t specify, but my contract would have zero NTCs or NMCs — he’d be traded when it made sense for the team.
"Ridin’ The Meat Train & Dreaming of Jack’s Johnson All Summer Long!"
http://www.battleofcali.com/
Oh yeah for sure, just my personal rule of thumb is to only do these contracts for franchise players. I don’t like just doing it for “useful” players, but that’s just me.
"You keep shooting. You hope it goes in, and you smile." -Teemu Selanne
Well, maybe the term “useful” is too shabby. I mean, I think B-Ry was on two of our best three line combinations from last year (certainly using small samples at times):
Getzlaf-Perry-Ryan
Sexton-Koivu-Ryan
Blake-Koivu-Selanne
And he was my team MVP from the season before, where he made pretty much any linemate productive. And I’m pretty certain he’s pretty essential for next season — we’re way more fucked without him.
I dunno — what in particular has soured you on the kid? Don’t see him as a long-term top-liner any more, or just don’t like paying or them?
"Ridin’ The Meat Train & Dreaming of Jack’s Johnson All Summer Long!"
http://www.battleofcali.com/
Neither, I want him long term and I want to pay him. It’s not that I’m sour on him, like I said I see him being a regular 40 goal scorer in the very near future. You’re exactly right that the year before he could make any line better. I don’t think he did that this past season. Honestly the RPG line was underwhelming, which is another part of it. I’m hoping it was a combination of Getzlaf’s ankle, Perry’s hot/cold streaks, and Bobby’s hot/cold streaks because that line can be SO good. Also about the Sexton-Koivu-Ryan line, well for the couple weeks that line was good it was 70% Dan Sexton and 30% Koivu. That’s a harsh exaggeration and I know Ryan produced but he wasn’t the reason for that line’s success IMO.
It may be partly my fault I expected him to get a lot better than he was the year before when I agree with you — he was the man. You’re also right that Getzlaf seems to disappear at times, and it might just be a byproduct of our bad season. Getzlaf had an excuse. A bad one, but an excuse nonetheless. I think I was also disappointed that he didn’t play a major role in the Olympics. I mean seriously, the kid has more talent than a lot of that lineup but he couldn’t manage to get himself the ice time he deserved. I don’t think he had a strong performance.
To sum it up I think it’s partly Bobby really didn’t do amazing this past year but mostly because I expected too much. I hope it really is a sophomore slump and he improves upon his rookie season because this kid has a good chance of living up to being picked behind Cindy.
"You keep shooting. You hope it goes in, and you smile." -Teemu Selanne
Well, the RPG line was better than any XPG line last season, except maybe for a few games from Beleskey. Those top-liners had trouble outscoring all year, though — I guess I’d buy it more if there was another linemate where they looked great (I guess Brenden Morrow?).
And we still should consider that while B-Ry has been playing on a roster with Teemu, he’s basically been shorted all sorts of top-unit power play time. It makes perfect sense why it happens, but I think given some more top-unit time we’d have seen much better counting numbers.
I would’ve flip-flopped on crediting Koivu and Sexton, btw. Sexton’s real contribution was (at first) shooting the puck whenever possible, which is definitely useful, but heavily relies on what Koivu brought. And Ryan was helping that out, whether we want to admit that or not.
"Ridin’ The Meat Train & Dreaming of Jack’s Johnson All Summer Long!"
http://www.battleofcali.com/
No doubt. BR with 1st unit PP time probably would have gotten him 40+ goals last year. Pretty scary considering that I think we both agree he’s only going to get better.
About the RPG line. I think the problem is that they didn’t look any better with BR. That line was supposed to be our answer to Heatley/Thornton/Marleau and lines like that. The fact that Bobby Ryan on that line didn’t make much of a difference over Beleskey is what I don’t like.
We aren’t as far apart as reading through these posts would suggest haha. I have confidence that B-Ry will improve further this year and who knows, maybe his next deal (if he’s still ours) should be for 7-9 years or so.
Good Lord, I’m talking about 4-5 years from now with a guy that’s not even signed with us yet. It’s been a long off season lol.
"You keep shooting. You hope it goes in, and you smile." -Teemu Selanne
Very interesting proposal. I’m sure if Kovy’s contract gets the OK, we’ll see more deals like that in a flurry. People are already bringing up Stamkos and Doughty.
I’d love to lock up Drew for ten years, but is that something he wants? I’m not saying he’s not loyal to this team, but that’s a big commitment on both sides.
Take Toews — he’s only 22, and he signed a contract for five years. That lets him hit UFA status once he’s done, right in his prime. You could see why players would want that. And I can’t fault them for it.
Couldn’t rule those monster deals out, though…
In Dinglebarn We Trust
Oh for sure — me thinking up this idea in my condo doesn’t mean that it’s even close to viable for the Ducks or for B-Ry; that’s why this is filed largely under “crazy talk”.
And for sure there’s allure to prime-time free agency, but maybe there’s a Kovalchuk (or Frolov) lesson this summer — lock up your future dollars when you can, because there’s no guarantee that there will be many buyers when your payday summer comes up.
But yeah — what looks passable from the fan angle really might not work for anybody truly vested.
"Ridin’ The Meat Train & Dreaming of Jack’s Johnson All Summer Long!"
http://www.battleofcali.com/
Oh yeah, you were perfectly clear. And I don’t think it’s crazy talk. I just often come at the situation from a team point of view. It just occurred to me that while Kings fans excitedly talk about locking him up for life, I have no idea what kind of term Doughty actually wants. I have to remind myself to think of the player.
In Dinglebarn We Trust
Yeah, for sure. And I’m sort of making up B-Ry’s desires based on his 3-year wishes — a nice increase in pay and a ticket out of Anaheim. Both those sort of get accomplished here, so maybe that suffices.
Or yeah, maybe it’s completely off-base. When will B-Ry start commenting here to clarify, I wonder? :)
"Ridin’ The Meat Train & Dreaming of Jack’s Johnson All Summer Long!"
http://www.battleofcali.com/
Could Doughty log on too?!? I’m dying to learn his perspective on everything from Wayne Simmonds to Diet Coke.
In Dinglebarn We Trust
i want to know what he thinks of the sharktopus
"When a man with a sing song voice tells me to fuck off, it always concerns me, boyo!"
-John Marston-
by SPADE-IN-VICTORHELL on Jul 28, 2010 10:02 AM PDT up reply actions
One potential downside I forgot to mention — lots of Ducks fans will probably buy Ryan jerseys if he signs for 15 years, and could end up pretty pissed to find out later that the plan was to move him to a rich team 4 years in.
Oh well. I suppose lots of jerseys don’t even last 4 years. :)
"Ridin’ The Meat Train & Dreaming of Jack’s Johnson All Summer Long!"
http://www.battleofcali.com/
yea if i ever got one id go personilized and throw rudy kelly on the back or bad mutha fucka…but with both getting you 86’d out of the honda center..ill probally just go with Spade and number 36 to honor J.F. Jomphe
"When a man with a sing song voice tells me to fuck off, it always concerns me, boyo!"
-John Marston-
by SPADE-IN-VICTORHELL on Jul 28, 2010 10:12 AM PDT up reply actions
A Rudy Kelly Ducks sweater would be epic, though. :)
"Ridin’ The Meat Train & Dreaming of Jack’s Johnson All Summer Long!"
http://www.battleofcali.com/
by Earl Sleek on Jul 28, 2010 10:16 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
if i hit the lotto ill do it and post it…
so gooooo lotto!!!!
"When a man with a sing song voice tells me to fuck off, it always concerns me, boyo!"
-John Marston-
by SPADE-IN-VICTORHELL on Jul 28, 2010 10:21 AM PDT up reply actions
Haha, don’t you know that the NHL.com store lets you preview your purchase before you buy?

:)
"Ridin’ The Meat Train & Dreaming of Jack’s Johnson All Summer Long!"
http://www.battleofcali.com/
by Earl Sleek on Jul 28, 2010 10:28 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
actually if i did hit the lotto..first thing i would do is go on a mad cross country “visit every stripper in every state” tour…after that..would give to some needy cause… then come back to cali and open the first socal hockey bar that actually has center ice…bartenders wearing goalie masks…hot puck bunnies on roller skates…mini rink for drunk assholes to get in fights and i guess do shootouts…hockey memrorilbila everywhere…a stuffed sharktopus hanging..and of course the rudykelly ducks jersy with double spotlights in a fancy frame…with appearances from the labatt blue bear..and shark fans would have to sit at the back and pay extra cuz there lame…it would be grand
"When a man with a sing song voice tells me to fuck off, it always concerns me, boyo!"
-John Marston-
by SPADE-IN-VICTORHELL on Jul 28, 2010 10:31 AM PDT up reply actions
i assume youd like to accompany me on my cross country tour also right?
"When a man with a sing song voice tells me to fuck off, it always concerns me, boyo!"
-John Marston-
by SPADE-IN-VICTORHELL on Jul 28, 2010 10:38 AM PDT up reply actions
well substitute those undesirable states for BBQ eatn’
yee-ha!!
"I've never heard so much shit come out of one mouth."
-John Marston-
by SPADE-IN-VICTORHELL on Jul 28, 2010 12:58 PM PDT up reply actions
"visit every stripper in every state" tour
waste of time. best action is in Montreal. You’re crossing the wrong country
by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Jul 28, 2010 11:12 AM PDT up reply actions
Woudl there be different arcade settings depending on whicn team you support? Like the Sharks and Kings fans never get to win… Waiter’s constantly stopping to measure Kings’ fans’ billiard cues, anddd penalty box time for those rowdy Ducks fans. =P
by ScottyKnows on Jul 28, 2010 12:21 PM PDT up reply actions
o yea theyll be a penatly box…its a VIP room one on one room witht an ice bunny…2min minor hehehe….
u can pay extra for the double minor..and only i the owner gets the 5 min major…sorry guys..i can be bribed though.
we have to amke any alterations to the NHL arcade game just make sure the sharks are stuck with nabokov and kings with cloutier..and it will work it self out to the ducks pleasure.
"I've never heard so much shit come out of one mouth."
-John Marston-
by SPADE-IN-VICTORHELL on Jul 28, 2010 1:01 PM PDT up reply actions
the number really adds somthing extra
"When a man with a sing song voice tells me to fuck off, it always concerns me, boyo!"
-John Marston-
by SPADE-IN-VICTORHELL on Jul 28, 2010 10:32 AM PDT up reply actions
And while I’m at these shenanigans…

Hahahaha!
"Ridin’ The Meat Train & Dreaming of Jack’s Johnson All Summer Long!"
http://www.battleofcali.com/
by Earl Sleek on Jul 28, 2010 10:35 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
hahahahahahhahahhahhahahhhahahahha
"When a man with a sing song voice tells me to fuck off, it always concerns me, boyo!"
-John Marston-
by SPADE-IN-VICTORHELL on Jul 28, 2010 10:37 AM PDT up reply actions
All you had to do was show a Frolov jersey. He’s suffered enough.
Hey, this is fun.

In Dinglebarn We Trust
The window for that might be closing — still waiting on that offer sheet, Dean-o.
"Ridin’ The Meat Train & Dreaming of Jack’s Johnson All Summer Long!"
http://www.battleofcali.com/
Would Doughty part with #8 or would he be a dick like Ozolinsh, I wonder? :)
"Ridin’ The Meat Train & Dreaming of Jack’s Johnson All Summer Long!"
http://www.battleofcali.com/
Randy Carlyle, I believe, also refused to let Selanne wear #8 in Winnipeg, but at least that time it was Selanne the rookie and not Selanne the legend.
But hey, maybe that’s the defenseman thing to do.
"Ridin’ The Meat Train & Dreaming of Jack’s Johnson All Summer Long!"
http://www.battleofcali.com/
I believe, at the time, Carlyle was pissed that Selanne would even ask
by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Jul 28, 2010 11:15 AM PDT up reply actions
speaking of rudy..where the goodybe frolov post?
"I've never heard so much shit come out of one mouth."
-John Marston-
by SPADE-IN-VICTORHELL on Jul 28, 2010 10:48 AM PDT reply actions
He’s got to get through the seven stages of grief first. Right now I think he’s stuck on stage 2: frantic masturbating.
I'm just saying: I'm pretty sure this means deaf people are devil worshipers.
Battle of California
by Megalodon on Jul 28, 2010 11:15 AM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
i guess stage 3 is sitting in a bucket of ice and putting yourself in a sling
"I've never heard so much shit come out of one mouth."
-John Marston-
by SPADE-IN-VICTORHELL on Jul 28, 2010 12:57 PM PDT up reply actions
BTW, I forgot to link it, but Couch Tarts put up a post about our day at the Angels-Mariners game, and it even features a cartoon of me!
Huzzah!
"Ridin’ The Meat Train & Dreaming of Jack’s Johnson All Summer Long!"
http://www.battleofcali.com/
damn it its blocked…what am i missing?….can someone send me the pic!!
ill return a crotch pic!!
"I've never heard so much shit come out of one mouth."
-John Marston-
by SPADE-IN-VICTORHELL on Jul 28, 2010 12:56 PM PDT up reply actions
ill return a crotch pic!!
You need to understand a little something about supply and demand.
In Dinglebarn We Trust
wheres my pic niesy?…..i didnt say which crotch…could be drew doughty’s…how i would have gotten it i will leave to the imagination
"I've never heard so much shit come out of one mouth."
-John Marston-
by SPADE-IN-VICTORHELL on Jul 28, 2010 1:35 PM PDT up reply actions
II would ask grace or SK but i guess there hibernating for the summer or somthing
"I've never heard so much shit come out of one mouth."
-John Marston-
by SPADE-IN-VICTORHELL on Jul 28, 2010 1:45 PM PDT up reply actions
does SK still kick it here after Meg’s Bleacher Report Sucks post?
by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Jul 28, 2010 1:51 PM PDT up reply actions
thanks neisy..your a doll
damn earl..that cartoon puts us to shame…
u put on a couple pounds though…so did I..shit…damn dead red redemption!!! good thing im done with the story line
"I've never heard so much shit come out of one mouth."
-John Marston-
by SPADE-IN-VICTORHELL on Jul 28, 2010 2:01 PM PDT up reply actions
you seem very brown there? Have you tanned since Conditioning Camp? Jersey Shore phase?
by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Jul 28, 2010 1:30 PM PDT up reply actions
Salaries in general
I am so tired of all the shell games with professional athletics. It gets more and more complicated. This is distracting when everybody should just be able to focus on the game. I would suggest each position have a base salary, period. Then, bonuses can be paid based on how the person performs. (injured? too bad). There can be caps put on the bonuses. It keeps all teams even and keeps the players hungry, so we get the most out of each player, everytime. Remeber, these games are for the fans entertainment, not the players. Imagine how Bobby Ryan or anybody else for that matter would play if they all knew they would only get more money if they played at the top of their game? Come on, Bobby, sign. We want to buy your jersey but can’t until we know which team you are going to be on! Tick, tock. LOL

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